Email list for Indian Subcontinent

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List name: NatHistory-India
List address: nathistory-india@lists.Princeton.EDU
List description: Natural History of South Asia - General discussion and research

A new mailing list called NatHistory-India has recently been created for discussions on the Natural History of South Asia.

This includes the geographic area that roughly falls under the political boundaries of India, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Maldives.

The primary purpose of this list is to provide a forum for discussions on the - biogeography, distribution, status, behavior, ecology, conservation, taxonomy of all biological taxa in the Indian subcontinent - birds, mammals, insects, herps, plants etc.

Discussion is un-moderated and the topics include :

1. Topics of general interest - birdwatching, national parks and wildlife sanctuary information, trip reports, news articles, books, travel tips for specific sites etc.

2. Topics from the perspective of researchers who are professionally involved with natural history research in S. Asia - research aids, opportunities, sites, experiences, publications, etc.

By accomodating the above topics, it is hoped that the list will be of some use both as a research tool, as well as a medium for informal exchange between people who share an interest in the natural history of South Asia at any level.

Topics dealing with environmental issues from the point of view of economy, development, society, politics, law are well suited for another list - S-ASIA-ENVIRON at Columbia University. While some overlap between the two lists may be inevitable, attempts should be made to keep this at a minimum. At the same time, cross-fertilization of ideas/information from other list(s) is encouraged where appropriate.

To subscribe to NatHistory-India, contact Vivek Tiwari at Princeton University vivek@ee.princeton.edu OR, send the following message to listproc@lists.princeton.edu subscribe nathistory-india your_email_address first_name last_name

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List name: NatHistory-India
List address: nathistory-india@lists.Princeton.EDU
List description: Natural History of South Asia - General discussion and research

A new mailing list called NatHistory-India has recently been created for discussions on the Natural History of South Asia. This includes the geographic area that roughly falls under the political boundaries of India, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Maldives.

The primary purpose of this list is to provide a forum for discussions on the - biogeography, distribution, status, behavior, ecology, conservation, taxonomy of all biological taxa in the Indian subcontinent - birds, mammals, insects, herps, plants etc.

Discussion is un-moderated and the topics include :

1. Topics of general interest - birdwatching, national parks and wildlife sanctuary information, trip reports, news articles, books, travel tips for specific sites etc.

2. Topics from the perspective of researchers who are professionally involved with natural history research in S. Asia - research aids, opportunities, sites, experiences, publications, etc.

By accomodating the above topics, it is hoped that the list will be of some use both as a research tool, as well as a medium for informal exchange between people who share an interest in the natural history of South Asia at any level.

Topics dealing with environmental issues from the point of view of economy, development, society, politics, law are well suited for another list - S-ASIA-ENVIRON at Columbia University (send a single word message - subscribe, to s-asia-environ-request@columbia.edu). While some overlap between the two lists may be inevitable, attempts should be made to keep this at a minimum. At the same time, cross-fertilization of ideas/information from other list(s) is encouraged where appropriate.

To subscribe to NatHistory-India, contact Vivek Tiwari at Princeton University vivek@ee.princeton.edu OR, send the following message to listproc@lists.princeton.edu subscribe nathistory-india your_email_address first_name last_name X-To: nathistory-india@lists.princeton.edu

I would humbly like to remind our members of the original motivation for the creation of this list. I am quoting from the introductory message that I try to send to every new member.

"The primary purpose of this list is to provide a forum for discussions on the - biogeography, distribution, status, behavior, ecology, conservation, taxonomy of all biological taxa in the Indian subcontinent - birds, mammals, insects, herps, plants etc.

Topics dealing with environmental issues from the point of view of economy, development, society, politics, law are well suited for another list - S-ASIA-ENVIRON at Columbia University (send a single word message - subscribe, to s-asia-environ-request@columbia.edu). While some overlap between the two lists may be inevitable, attempts should be made to keep this at a minimum. At the same time, cross-fertilization of ideas/information from other list(s) is encouraged where appropriate."

The recent thread on the population issue really falls under the second paragraph above. That should not be taken to mean that the issue is not important. It is. In fact, I have been moved enough to take the plunge and post something about it next.

But we will be spreading this list too thin unless we try and stay focussed on natural history oriented topics. But having said that, note that conservation of ecosystems, biodiversity, and individual species is VERY-VERY much under the intended scope of this list. In a way, that has to be the most important topic.

So for example, Ashish Kothari's post about the Wildlife Act and the ensuing debate is therefore very appropriate and hopefully we will see more like that.

But issues like the population thread have the potential to degrade into emotionally charged tirades. It is to the credit of this group (and its strength) that this did not happen here. I would hate to play the role of a policeman monitoring the content of the list. I don't think that would be necessary here. But please try to follow the following guidelines:

1. Topics should roughly fall under the announced scope of the list.

2. Replies of a personal nature should be addressed directly to the intended recipient. Note that using the "reply" feature of your mail program will cause the reply to go to everyone on the list.

3. Every message posted to the list goes on to an archive and gets stored for all time to come. Anybody in the world can access the archive. (Details on accessing the archive will be posted later). Think a bit about that before sending off an instinctive, emotionally charged flame !

4. Remember to include your name and email address (optionally the geographic location, and organization) somewhere in the body of the mail. Some mailers strip off the mail headers, making it difficult to identify the sender.

If you have any concerns whatsoever, about the above, do write to me at vivek@ee.princeton.edu

Thanks for your cooperation,
Subject: Counting People (Re: population etc.)

About a year ago a similar debate occurred on another discussion list of which I am a member. What started it was a post whose message was roughly that - "the whole issue of biodiversity conservation is a waste of time since human populations are ever-increasing. The only solution is wars, famines, and disease. Aren't the western countries doing a disservice to Earth, by helping eradicate infectious diseases in the third world, and trying to prevent civil wars" !!!!

Needless to say, what I perceived as the undercurrent of thought in the message got my blood boiling. I was tempted to send of a scathing flame. I resisted that, but sent a reply anyway, after I had cooled down. In light of the recent thread I was moved enough to post it here. Since it somewhat goes against my previous message on list content, I promise that this will be my first and only post on the topic.

Vivek
vivek@ee.princeton.edu
Princeton, NJ

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Advocating the virtues of famine and war as a means of environmental protection is a pitfall that should be avoided at all costs.

1. It betrays cultural/geographic/racial prejudices. Even if unintended, such arguments will be taken to reflect these if presented before a mixed audience. Something that was posted earlier today is a good example of this - Are people in Somalia/Rwanda/Burundi somehow more expendable than people in the Netherlands? While this may not have been the intention of the earlier post, it is very easy to believe that it was.

2. It is also a well-known fact that it is not just the size of the population but the (size of the population X per capita consumption) that is a more valid determinant of the environmental impact of a population. If one wants to advocate "saving the Earth" by reducing human population, then reducing the population of the USA and western Europe by half will be much more beneficial than reducing the pouplation of Africa or Asia by an equivalent amount.

It is easy to see how this line of argument will get nobody anywhere. I have seen more than one international environmental debate fail because of the blind emphasis on population control. This is a very sensitive topic and has to be treated delicately. Everybody agrees that controlling population growth is important and that any environmental gain will eventually be lost if the population keeps growing forever. But that is no reason for informed and concerned people to get overly pessimistic and dejected and hopeless (and yes, start being foolish). It is not just the raw population number BUT ALSO HOW THE POPULATION INTERACTS with the natural world that determines the well-being of the environment - and therein lies the source of OPTIMISM in my view:

1. Maybe people will realize that the Florida Everglades are more important than a Blockbuster theme park (they did).

2. Maybe the govt. will be made to realize that the virgin rain-forests of Silent Valley in India are more important than yet another hydro-electric station (it was).

3. Maybe the river people of the Amazon and the govts. there will realize that there is more money in eco-tourism than in just about anything else they could do with the rainforest (they are beginning to).

And maybe ....
4. the Congress will realize that the long-term preservation of the Arctic Regfuge is economically and environmentally more sound than the short-term exploitation for oil (may or may not).

5. the govts. in Central Africa will stop civil wars and do something positive to stop desertification, save forests , eliminate starvation, save elephants and promote tourism and maybe the rest of the world will help them do this (rather than "let them all kill each other" !) (may or may not).

6. the Unabomber won't declare himself to be an environmentalist (yikes!).

7. the Institute of Advanced Study in Princeton will realize that the extra money from selling its lands for housing develpoment is not worth the loss of the fabulous migrant songbird hot-spot (may or may not).

8. my office-mates from Wyoming and MIT will go birding with me this evening and get a different perspective on appreciating nature, other than just hunting (seems likely that they will).

There are reasons to be optimistic and pessimistic. I think there is more to be said about being hopeful and doing the best one can, rather than being despondent and doing nothing, or worse, getting desperate, and doing or saying something that only hurts the overall cause.

Subject: List options, archives etc.

I have composed a message regarding some basic guidelines and some useful list options. Please read it and save if for future reference. I also intend to send this to every new subscriber. If you any suggestions/comments regarding this, please contact me directly.

Vivek
vivek@ee.princeton.edu
Princeton, NJ

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IMPORTANT: Please read this document and save it for future reference.

  List name    : Nathistory-India
  -------------------------------
  Description : Natural History of South Asia - General discussion and research
  List address: nathistory-india@lists.Princeton.EDU
  List owner  : Vivek Tiwari (vivek@ee.princeton.edu)

  Contents: 
  ---------
  #1  General guidelines for posted messages. 
  #2  Some useful list options
  #3  Accessing the archives
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  #1  General guidelines for posted messages:
  -------------------------------------------
  1. Topics should roughly fall under the announced scope of the list
     (Refer to the introductory welcome message).
   
  2. Replies of a personal nature should be addressed DIRECTLY to the
     intended recipient. 
     WARNING: Use of the "reply" feature of your mail program will cause
     the reply to go to EVERYONE ON THE LIST!!

  3. Every message posted to the list goes on to an archive and gets
     stored for all time to come. Anybody in the world can access the archive.
     (Details on accessing the archive included below). Think a bit
     about that before sending off an instinctive, emotionally charged flame !

  4. Always remember to include your name and email address (optionally the
     geographic location, and organization) somewhere in the body of the mail.
     Some mailers strip off the mail headers, making it difficult to identify
     the sender.
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  #2  Some useful list options:
   -----------------------------

  There are several options you can set to tailor the delivery of messages.
  The options are set by sending commands to the "listproc". For this,
  include the command in the body of a message and address it to
listproc@lists.princeton.edu Note that this is not the list address. This is the "listproc" address.
Useful commands and options:
HELP

This command returns a file of very useful information.

The following will tell you about the most useful commands, but try the HELP command anyway, for a comprehensive list of commands.

SET nathistory-india MAIL POSTPONE
Stops delivery of messages without unsubscribing. Useful for temporarily turning off messages, say while you are travelling.

SET nathistory-india MAIL
To restore normal delivery.

SET nathistory-india MAIL DIGEST
To set the "digest" mode. You will receive just one file each day. This will contain every message posted to the list that day.

SET nathistory-india MAIL
To restore normal delivery.

SET nathistory-india MAIL ACK
The listproc will start sending an acknowledgement for every message you post. This acknowledgment confirms delivery of your post. This is not the default setting.

SET nathistory-india MAIL NOACK
Reset the ACK option. This is the default setting.

RECIPIENTS nathistory-india
Returns list of current subscribers and their email addresses. You can choose to conceal your name if you want (send HELP). You may also want to send the list-owner (vivek@ee.princeton.edu) your contact information, and a 2-3 line summary of interests, if you want to be included in an informal on-line directory of subscribers (under construction).

UNSUBSCRIBE nathistory-india
To request removal from list. You should send this message from the email address under which you subscribed. You can find that address by sending the RECIPIENTS command. You can also change your address without unsubscribing and re-subscribing (send HELP). Or contact list-owner.

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#3 Accessing the archives:
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Every message posted on the list is stored on an archive, which is hosted by the listproc. New members can browse the archive to see earlier messages. It is also possible to search the archives for specific text strings.

1. Access through "gopher": gopher lists.princeton.edu This is the easiest way to access the archives. "gopher" is a text based precursor to the Web. Contact your system administrator if you don't have access to gopher. Once inside gopher, use the menu features to browse or do text searches on all previous messages.

2. Access through listproc: Anyone can use this method. It is best explained with examples.

To listproc@lists.princeton.edu send

INDEX nathistory-india

This will send you a list of all the files on the archive. Each file corresponds to about a month of messages. Example of filename - log9511. You can access individual files by:

GET nathistory-india file_name

Searching:
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You can also do searches. Lets say we want previous messages related to mixed foraging flocks of birds. I can do a search with a loose target such as "foraging". So, send the following:

SEARCH nathistory-india foraging

This will return a list of files which contain messages that contain the string "foraging". Sample response provided below. You can now get the relevant files by using "GET". You can also construct more sophisticated queries. Send the command HELP for more details.

Matches for pattern 'foraging'...

--- Archive: nathistory-india (path: nathistory-india)

File log9511:
time -- making foraging mor efficient. I think I should look into the
End of matches in file log9511

File log9602:
Subject: Mixed foraging flocks Does anyone know of research done on mixed foraging flocks of

Subject: Re: Mixed foraging flocks
foraging bird flocks. Proc. 42nd Annual Sess. Sri Lanka Assoc. Advan.

Subject: Re: Mixed foraging flocks foraging etc. These were for single species and I had asked him if they End of matches in file log9602

File log9603:
Subject: Mixed foraging flocks (again)
Subject: Re: Mixed foraging flocks (again)
I have points to be made of about mixed foraging flocks. It is not the End of matches in file log9603

Contact the list-owner (Vivek Tiwari: vivek@ee.princeton.edu) if you have questions or problems.

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