ECOLOG-L Digest - 7 Feb 2003 to 8 Feb 2003 (#2003-39)
Subject: ECOLOG-L Digest - 7 Feb 2003 to 8 Feb 2003 (#2003-39) There are 6 messages totalling 234 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Question about the Shannon Diversity Index (2) 2. Finding a Post doc 3. Shannon-Weaver and others 4. Shannon-Wiener 5. new m.s. program looking for students ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:54:07 -0800 From: Paul Johnson <p.johnson@PRODIGY.NET> Subject: Re: Question about the Shannon Diversity Index Re: conversion factors from one base to another, use log(b)[x] = log(a)[x]/log(a)[b] i.e., log to the base b of x = (log to the base a of x) divided by (log to the base a of b) a is often chosen to be the base 10 or the base e. e.g., log(2)[x] = log(e)[x]/log(e)[2] I have a program that calculates four species diversity indices. These are the Shannon index, the Simpson index, the Camargo even-ness index and the Pielou regularity index (Mouillot and Leprêtre, 1999). Let me know if it is of any use. I can send it as an e-mail attachment. Paul Johnson http://www.biostatsoftware.com Davis, CA Reference Mouillot, D. and Leprêtre, A. (1999), ^ÑA Comparison of Species Diversity Estimators,^Ô Res. Popul. Ecol. 41: 203-215. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:49:01 -0700 From: Mark Dixon <Mark.Dixon@ASU.EDU> Subject: Re: Finding a Post doc Hi Rob, You can also go the route of writing to professors whose work you admire and asking if they are looking for a postdoc. There are also some postdoctoral fellowships that you can apply for (National Research Council, The Nature Conservancy... I think NSF and EPA). Anyone else know of some others? Mark Dixon On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Rob Smith wrote: > Hello, > > I'll soon have my degree (emphasis in avian migration ecology) and am i the > job/post doc market. I was wondering if anyone could provide insight i to > finding post doc opportunities? I'm monitoring Science, the Chronicle nd > of course this listserve - are there other places out there to look? T anks > > Rob Smith > Department of Biological Sciences > University of Southern Mississippi > Hattiesburg, MS 39406-5018 > (601) 266-4394 > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:05:16 EST From: TLSParker@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Question about the Shannon Diversity Index In graduate school, I was fascinated by the theory behind the Shannon index, but wondered what the index meant when calculated for a particular assemblag of living things. So, using a data set including vascular plant species lists with importance values for 2700 sampled plots within apparently homogenous plant communities, I calculated the Shannon index (and some other indices like Simpson) for each plot. I then created an x,y scatter plot with number of species per plot on the y-axis and the Shannon index along the x-axis. The result was a big blob with fairly distinct boundaries. The blob was truly a blob and hinted of no linearity in any direction. My observation was that a single value of Shannon (for example 2.36 if calculated using the natural log approach) coul represent a plant community with a higher number of species and an uneven relative abundance distribution OR a plant community with a lower number of species and a more even relative abundance distribution. Thus, because "number of species "and "evenness" combine to define the notio of diversity, I concluded that a number calculated using the Shannon formula said little about diversity by itself, and meant very little when compared with other numbers resulting from calculations using the Shannon formula. I realize this is far from the original question, but I was inspired to writ due to the number of obvious Shannon index experts paying attention to this thread: My question--what do people use Shannon for? Do large data sets, describing other organisms, plotted as I described above also result in blobs? How do people interpret results of calculations based on Shannon? Does Shannon correlate with environmental variables, either abiotic or biotic? What does it all mean in an applied sense? These questions have nagged at me since 1994 when I began my grad school project and stared at that first blob for hours. Thank you, Tom Parker Hamilton, Montana ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:42:01 -0800 From: Phil Nott <pnott@BIRDPOP.ORG> Subject: Shannon-Weaver and others May I refer readers to a text which discusses the calculation, some history, and the pros and cons of various indices of diversity and species packing. The copy I have was published in 1978 - Ecological Methods by T.R.E Southwood - a wonderful text that I still refer to several times a year at least. Anyway, the current edition is co-authored by PA Henderson and sold by Blackwell http://www.blackwell-science.com/southwood/ Also, for the ecological educators out there is an interesting treatment of the subject provided by the The Institute for Environmental Modeling (Univ. of Tennessee) in their NSF funded project Alternative Routes to Quantitative Literacy for the Life Sciences Look under the ecology section of http://www.tiem.utk.edu/~gross/bioed/modulelist.html ______________________________ M. Philip Nott, Ph.D. The Institute for Bird Populations PO Box 1346 11435 State Route 1, Suite 23 Point Reyes Station CA 94956-1346 Voice: (415) 663-2050 Fax: (415) 663-9482 email: pnott@birdpop.org Visit our website www.birdpop.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:33:58 EST From: WirtAtmar@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Shannon-Wiener Gretchen writes: > The Shannon-Wiener index is called such because it was independently > developed by Shannon and Wiener both. I am fairly certain that it is a > mistake to call it Shannon-Weaver index, which refers - as Erika point > out - to the same equation. The confusion, I believe, stems from the act > that Weaver was a co-author on one of Shannon's papers (but I am not > certain of this). Gretchen is quite correct. As was mentioned earlier, Warren Weaver's primary contribution was to write an introduction to Shannon's 1949 book, which was re-publication of his 1948 BSTJ papers, in an attempt to introduce his ideas to a much wider audience. In that 1949 introduction, Weaver wrote the following regarding the history of the development of the ideas: "Dr. Shannon's work roots back, as von Neumann has pointed out, to Boltzmann's observation, in some of his work on statistical physics (1894), that entropy is related to "missing information," inasmuch as it is related to the number of alternatives which remain possible to a physical system after all the macroscopically observable information concerning it has been recorded. L. Szilard (Zsch. f. Phys. Vol. 53, 1925) extended this idea to a general discussion of information in physics, and von Neumann (Math. Foundation of Quantum Mechanics, Berlin, 1932, Chap. V) treated information in quantum mechanics and particle physics. Dr. Shannon's work connects more directly with certain ideas developed some twenty years ago by H. Nyquist an R.V.L. Hartley, both of the Bell Laboratories; and Dr. Shannon has himself emphasized that communication theory owes a great debt to Professor Norbert Wiener for much of its basic philosophy. Professor Wiener, on the other hand points out that Shannon's early work on switching and mathematical logic antedated his own interest in this field; and generously adds that Shannon certainly deserves the credit for independent development of such fundamenta aspects of the theory as the introduction of entropic ideas. Shannon has naturally been specially concerned to push the applications to engineering communication, while Wiener has been more concerned with biological application (central nervous system phenomena, etc.)." -- The Mathematical Theory of Communication, CE Shannon & W Weaver, 1949 Univ. Illinois Press, p. 3. Wirt Atmar ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 14:37:00 -0500 From: crowe@COASTAL.EDU Subject: new m.s. program looking for students Coastal Carolina University is seeking qualified graduate students for its n w Masters Degree in Coastal Marine and Wetland Studies. This degree offers diverse studies of the processes, features, and organisms within the coastal zone. Current areas of strength include coastal marine geology, coastal environmental chemistry, ecology of freshwater, estuarine and marine habitat and the impact humans have on them. Further information is available at www.coastal.edu/science/coastalstudies/ or contact Dr. Douglas D. Nelson, College of Science, Coastal Carolina University, P.O. Box 261945, Conway S.C 29526, (843)349-2202, dnelson@coastal.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------ This mail sent through Coastal Carolina University's WebMail ------------------------------ Subject: ECOLOG-L Digest - 8 Feb 2003 to 9 Feb 2003 (#2003-40) There are 4 messages totalling 273 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Question about the Shannon Diversity Index 2. Conservation Medicine Symposium, Tufts Veterinary School, Grafton, Massachusetts, March 30th, 2003 3. red cellophane to give away 4. Recording frogs - responses from the list ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 17:27:25 -0600 From: Michael W Palmer/bot/cas/Okstate <carex@OKSTATE.EDU> Subject: Re: Question about the Shannon Diversity Index Tom Parker wrote: "My question--what do people use Shannon for? Do large data sets, describing other organisms, plotted as I described above also result in blobs? How do people interpret results of calculations based on Shannon? Does Shannon correlate with environmental variables, either abiotic or biotic? What does it all mean in an applied sense? These questions have nagged at me since 1994 when I began my grad school project and stared at that first blob for hours." I am glad you only stared at it for hours! Ecologists have stared at H' for decades, sometimes divining meaning from it as reliable as tea-leaf readings. H', like most other diversity measures, is a dual index: it is high if richness is high, or evenness is high, or both. Thus, any interpretation of H' without a simultanous discussion of richness and evenness is a bit difficult to evaluate. At best, it is a measure of the uncertainty as to who your neighbor is. If you already have richness and evenness (admittedly, one typically calculates diversity indices as the first step towards calculating evenness), then there is not much point to interpreting H' or similar measures. The choice of an appropriate evenness measure is nontrivial, and of course there is a substantial literature on it. However, the concept of evenness is fundamentally different from that of richness, and It doesn't advance biodiversity theory very much to lump them together in a single index, however elegantly. Neither richness nor evenness (nor other single indices) completely describe species diversity: if one is truly interested in describing the abundance distribution of a sample, there is no substitute for the abundance distribution itself (e.g. a dominance-diversity curve). --Mike Palmer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:12:56 -0500 From: Ellen M Rogers <ellenm@SEACOAST.COM> Subject: Conservation Medicine Symposium, Tufts Veterinary School, Grafton, Massachusetts, March 30th, 2003 Conservation Medicine Symposium Tufts Veterinary School Grafton, Massachusetts March 30th, 2003 Tufts will be hosting its annual Conservation Medicine Symposium on March 30th, 2003, in Grafton, Massachusetts. Speakers this year include: Dr. Billy Karesh ? Wildlife Conservation Society, New York Dr. Terry Norton ? Wildlife Conservation Society, St. Catherines Dr. Jeremy Goodman -Potawatomi Zoo, Indiana Dr. Rose Borkowski - Lion Country Safari, Florida Dr. Suzan Murray ? Smithsonian Institute National Zoo, DC Dr. Cheryl Rosa ? The Artic Institute of Biology, Alaska The Symposium will be held on the Tufts Veterinary Campus in Grafton, Massachusetts, March 30th, 2003, in the Loew Education building from 9am ? 4pm. Tufts Veterinary School will be honoring the late Dr. Annelisa Kilbourn with a Memorial Reception. A tragic plane crash on November 2, 2002 took the life of Dr. Kilbourn when she was returning to Gabon to continue her wildlife work there. Employed by the Wildlife Conservation Society and SOS Rhino, Dr. Kilbourn was internationally known for establishing that Ebola virus was a serious threat to gorillas in the wild. Fearless and fluent in seven languages, Annelisa excelled at conservation field work, and other projects she led involved black rhinos, white rhinos, and Sumatran rhinos, orangutans, elephants, wild dogs, and lemurs. Dr. Kilbourn, a 1996 Tufts Vet School graduate, was 35. Dr. William B. Karesh, head of the Wildlife Conservation Society Field Veterinary Program, will deliver the first annual Annelisa M. Kilbourn Memorial Lecture during Tufts^Ò Conservation Medicine Symposium. The reception will take place in the Bernice Barbour Wildlife building from 4:30-6pm Symposium attendees are requested to make a $10 donation to the Annelisa M. Kilbourn Conservation Medicine Fund. The Memorial Reception is free. For more information, contact Kathy Tuxbury, kathryn.tuxbury@tufts.edu . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:56:09 -0500 From: David Inouye <inouye@umd.edu> Subject: red cellophane to give away I have a large piece (about 3 x 20 feet) of red cellophane that I think was originally wrapping paper. It might be useful for covering lights or observation chambers for nocturnal observations. If you want a piece, send me a self-addressed stamped envelope and let me know how much you want. Dr. David W. Inouye Department of Biology University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742-4415 301-405-6946; FAX 301-314-9358 inouye@umd.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:48:54 -0500 From: "Meretsky, Vicky J." <meretsky@INDIANA.EDU> Subject: Recording frogs - responses from the list Recently, I posted a request for information on techniques for recording frog calls. The FrogLogger technique based on work by Peterson and Dorcas seems the best established, and there are commercially available systems (see http://www.bedfordtechnical.com/index.htm ) Here is the complete list of responses: _______________________________ I'm responding to your recent posting on the University of Maryland ecology listserve. I'm currently developing an online Managers' Monitoring Manual which has lists of counting techniques for various taxonomic groups. The FrogLogger technique might be of particular interest to you. The Manual is in test version, but is accessible, and the "real" version should be available in the next few months. Manual link; http://testweb-pwrc.er.usgs.gov/monmanual/ FrogLogger account link: http://testweb-pwrc.er.usgs.gov/monmanual/techniques/froglogger.htm ___________________________ You might want to talk to Dr. Mike Dorcas- - he's developed a remote sensing recorder for amphibian calls. For an introduction, see Peterson and Dorcas. 1994. Automated Data Acquisition. Page 47-56 in Measuring and Monitoring Biological Diversity: Standard Methods for Amphibians (Heyer et al., eds.). Smithsonian Inst Press. I am sure great things have developed over the last decade, and I look forward to seeing the summary. Chuck Peterson may be contacted at Idaho State University. _________________________ I've known a few amphibian researchers that have used frogloggers (automated frog recording devices) to conduct frog call surveys for them. They're basically a tape recorder and a couple of timers in an ammo case with a microphone attached that can be built fairly cheaply and then set out in a wetland to record calls at specified intervals throughout the night. I'm not personally an expert at building them, but here are some references that should help: Barichivich, W.J., and S.A. Johnson. 2002. Frogloggers: using technology to listen for frogs. People, Land, & Water. 9(1):30. Bridges, Andrew S.; Dorcas, Michael E. Temporal variation in anuran calling behavior: implications for surveys and monitoring programs. Copeia, 2000(2): 587-592. 2000 4 figs. ISSN: 0045-8511 Peterson, Charles R. and Michael E. Dorcas AUTOMATED DATA ACQUISITION. Measuring and Monitoring Biological Diversity: Standard Methods for Amphibians. W. Ronald Heyer, Maureen A. Donnelly, Roy W.McDiarmid, Lee-Ann C. Hayek, and Mercedes S. Foster, editors., p. 47-57. 1994. ______________________________ Hi: I record bird and frog calls with some good fidelity binaural mikes from Core Sound (www.core-sound.com). They range in price from ca. $100-$1000 for a pair, and give you real nice stereo separation. I don't know what level of fidelity this person needs. They'd need to be protected somewhat from the weather -- couldn't be exposed to full, long-term rains. These may or may not be appropriate...I just wanted to mention them as very good mikes (I have the ca. $300 pair) with very good fidelity and separation. ___________________________ A recent graduate student used cheap (ca. $10 each), simple cassette recorders from Walmart with great success. A 45 minute tape (one side) provide a long record after she left the wetland, and the microphone within the tape recorder worked great - plenty of vocalizations, but not from so far away that records were confused among neighboring wetlands. She could set out multiple recorders, and make the rounds again to record in a new set of wetlands, and cover a lot of turf in one night. The taping worked so well that a local expert who spends many nights listening was quite impressed. A 45-minute tape could allow time for someone to walk into a wetland at night, set the recorder down in a dry place (or strapped to a stake), and leave, thus permitting frogs to start chorusing again unimpeded. Once the tape stops, the machine is off and can be recovered any time later (though it may need to be hidden in an urban setting). _____________________________ Hi there. you requested info on the listserver for leads to recorders for frog calls. I am a field biologist and I have worked for The University of Minnesota recording frog calls. The Center For Water and Environment has a neat little setup for recording frog calls. Basically we used a plastic box to house the tape recorder in. Then we connected the microphone to the tape recorder and fed it through a hole in the plastic box. We loaded the recorders with tapes. We took the devices out to the field and pressed record. We then put the device in a black plastic trash bag. The microphone cord sticks out of the bag. To amplify the frog call sounds we stuck a cone shaped object over the microphone part and sat it on the black plastic bag. Then we let the recorders go all night and picked them back up the next day. This works pretty well. ________________________________ Lang Elliot has been recording frogs and other animals for many years, in fact he makes a full time living recording such sounds and producing CDs and books derived from them. He has lots of experience making high quality recordings of frogs. The web page for his business is below, and you can find an email address for him there. http://www.naturesound.com/corepage/core.html ------------------------------ Subject: NCSI: Trial access to Web Of Science Database (Science Citation Index) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 12:54:07 +0530 From: Dr. T.B. Rajashekar <raja@ncsi.iisc.ernet.in> To: "IISc Broadcast" <broadcast@ece.iisc.ernet.in> Subject: NCSI: Trial access to Web Of Science Database (Science Citation Index) Dear Researcher We are pleased to announce the availability of free trial access to the Web Of Science (WOS) database of ISI (Institute for Scientific Information). The trial access is available till 30th October 2002. WOS provides web access to Extended Science Citation Index database covering about 6,500 core journals in S&T from Agriculture to Zoology. It facilitates novel literature searching using citation links, which is not possible with other bibliographic databases. You can find all citation related information for your research publications, apart from general literature searches. Trial access is available for the years: 1975-2001 data, plus all 2002 year-to-date weekly updates. The URL is http://access.isiproducts.com/wos Please use the following ID and password to access ISI Web of Knowledge: ID: mhrd Password: hrdin (Note: the ID and password are case-sensitive) Ensure that you set your web browser to one of the following proxies: 1) htpp://144.16.64.4/pac/iisc.pac (automatic proxy), or 2) 202.141.128.42 (port : 3128) (manual proxy), or 3) 144.16.79.58 (port 3128) (manual proxy) Note that the proxy 144.16.79.58 is valid only for PCs validated by SERC. Trial access is limited to five simultaneous users. Any subsequent attempts to access the database after five users are logged on will generate a message indicating that the maximum number of concurrent users is already in effect. For this reason, we strongly recommend that you logoff by clicking the the LOGOFF button at the end of your search. This immediately frees the session for the next user. Regards - T.B. Rajashekar, NCSI ____________________________________________________________________________ _ Broadcast Policy and related information: http://ece.iisc.ernet.in/broadcast/ Lost and Found: http://ece.iisc.ernet.in/broadcast/lost.html Lifeline (Assistance in Blood Requirements): http://ece.iisc.ernet.in/broadcast/bdrequest.html Lifeline homepage: http://www.iisc.ernet.in/~lifeline/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Broadcast tip of the week: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Mails sent to us could have a RELEVANT SUBJECT LINE in the following format: Dept: Event - Title, Date, Time e.g., SERC: Seminar - The Maths of Computing, 30 Sept, 4:30p so as to give the reader an idea of what the broadcast might contain at FIRST GLANCE. ____________________________________________________________________________ __ Subject: ECOLOG-L Digest - 27 Sep 2002 to 29 Sep 2002 (#2002-249) There are 2 messages totalling 119 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Course Announcement-Please Post 2. tenure-track position is available for an Ecologist ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 12:04:51 -0400 From: "Les M. Lynn" <leslynn@OPTONLINE.NET> Subject: Course Announcement-Please Post Course Announcement: Intensive Wolf Study, Bio 119 Bergen Community College, Paramus, New Jersey is pleased to offer for the se enth year, Bio 119, Intensive Wolf Study, and thaught at the International W lf Center, Ely, MN. This is a 3-credit (from BCC), one hundred level biology course taught from January-9 January 2003. Students will receive formal lectures during the morning sessions, including basic wolf biology and ecology, reintroduction and management issues, etc. Fieldwork will be conducted in the afternoon and evening sessions. Schedule are ground and aerial telemetry, a necropsy, snowshoe to an abandoned den, olf communications, wolf parasites and observations of the captive pack at t e International Wolf Center. Cost: $825 for room, board (except for one meal), and use of the IWC's facil ties and equipment. Tuition: ~$200 for Bergen County, NJ residents, ~ $500. 0 for out-of-state residents and transportation costs (~$350 airfare). Space is very limited to 12 students Contact: Dr. Les M. Lynn Phone (201) 612 5263 leslynn@optonline.net Les M. Lynn, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Biology Bergen Community College Paramus, NJ 076562 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 12:09:32 -0500 From: "James A. Murray" <jmurray@MAIL.UCA.EDU> Subject: tenure-track position is available for an Ecologist ECOLOGIST Department of Biology, University of Central Arkansas, Conway, AR 72035 A tenure-track position is available for an Ecologist at the Assistant or Associate Professor level. Preference will be given to aquatic ecologists working at the community or ecosystem level, and who have a strong quantitative background. A Ph.D. is required. The Department of Biology contains 23 full-time faculty, most holding doctorates. The department serves over 500 undergraduate majors in three major areas of interest: ecology/evolutionary biology, preprofessional studies, and general biology. In addition, the department takes a lead role in our Environmental Science Program, where most students pursue the biology track. About 20 students are currently enrolled in the department's MS program. About 1,500 students per year take our Biology for General Education course (with lab), and we offer several large service courses for health science majors. The biology faculty are dedicated to quality teaching. The candidate's teaching responsibilities will include General Ecology, Biometry, contribution to the lower-division curriculum, and an upper division elective or graduate course in the candidate's area of specialty. New faculty have a reduced teaching load, and eventually carry a 12 contact hour/week load. Teaching load can be reduced through reassigned time and sabbatical programs. Most of the faculty are actively engaged in research, and the candidate is expected to develop an active research program. Funding sources of current faculty have included NSF, NIH, American Heart Association, USDA, EPA, the Smithsonian Institution, private foundations. and various state and local agencies. Start-up assistance is provided. The Department of Biology occupies about 50,000 sq-ft in Lewis Science Center. Most rooms have optical fiber access to campus resources and the internet. We maintain an extensive equipment inventory. Multiple computer stations are employed in cell biology, physiology, molecular biology, and the freshman Biology-I course, and are available for ecology and biometry courses. We are currently adding a laser confocal microscope to our existing advanced microscopy facility, which contains a new SEM. Access to a variety of analytical instruments is also available. Additional teaching and research resources include a well-equipped graphics lab, modern animal rooms, five large growth chambers, two large greenhouses, and several outdoor experimental and natural areas. The university has undergone about $100 million in new construction over the past decade. Our department strives to maintain the kind of rich collegial environment where faculty and students feel comfortable and welcome to explore the various subdisciplines of modern biology. Collaboration and cooperation are the rule, and a supportive departmental atmosphere is the result. Conway is a prosperous city of 45,000 with two private colleges in addition to The University of Central Arkansas. Living here means easy access to both a large urban center (Little Rock is 30 minutes away via I-40) and pristine wild areas such as the Buffalo National River, and the Ozark and Ouachita Mountains. The area affords opportunities for canoeing, fishing, and hunting, and is also rich in art, handicraft, and folk culture. For further information about the department, university, and area, visit <http://www.uca.edu/biology/>. To apply, submit curriculum vita, statements of teaching philosophy and research plans, and the names of three references to: Dr. Paul Hamilton, Department Chairperson, at the address above. Application review will begin November 20th, 2002 and continue until the position is filled. The University of Central Arkansas is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. Minorities and women are especially encouraged to apply. ======== Dr. Paul Hamilton, Professor and Chairperson Department of Biology University of Central Arkansas Conway, AR 72035 TEL: 501/450-5915 FAX: 501/450-5914 WWW: http://www.uca.edu/biology/ ------------------------------ End of ECOLOG-L Digest - 27 Sep 2002 to 29 Sep 2002 (#2002-249) *************************************************************** ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
Thanks to discussion with TVR, I have decided to put a link to back files of the discussion group. This months back files.
The link to complete archives is available elsewhere.
This text was originally an e-mail. It was converted using a program
RUPANTAR- a simple e-mail-to-html converter.
(c)Kolatkar Milind. kmilind@ces.iisc.ernet.in