Subject: ECOLOG-L Digest - 24 Jun 2002 to 25 Jun 2002 (#2002-163)
There are 13 messages totalling 1248 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. News: Fungi May Mitigate Acid Rain-damaged Forest Soils
2. News: GMOs May Threaten Natural Species
3. Fire in the West (6)
4. FIRES
5. job posting for forest ecosystem carbon modeller
6. FW: Fire in the West
7. Fwd: AZ Fire Update: Help Needed
8. Fwd: Arizona Fire Update (More on Environmentalists response)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:09:27 -0700
From: Ashwani Vasishth <vasishth@USC.EDU>
Subject: News: Fungi May Mitigate Acid Rain-damaged Forest Soils
http://ens-news.com/ens/jun2002/2002-06-21-09.asp
Fungi Bring Calcium to Acid Rain Damaged Trees
ITHACA, New York, June 21, 2002 (ENS) - Fungi on the roots of some trees
in the Northeastern United States help supply calcium in forest soils
damaged by acid rain.
Although forest scientists have known for more than three decades that
acid rain causes the essential plant nutrient calcium to leach from forest
soils, the role of root fungi was not suspected until about three years
ago.
Electron microscopy examination of sand revealed tiny tunnels burrowed
through soil grains. These miniature miners turned out to be
ectomycorrhizal fungi that can penetrate pores in sandy soils and take up
phosphorus, as well as calcium.
Living in symbiotic relationships on some tree roots, where the fungi
obtain sugars, the fungi deliver calcium and phosphorus to the trees
before the nutrients are lost to acidic soils.
But the study's authors warn that not all trees benefit from the fungi and
the cushion it provides against acid rain damage.
"Not all tree species are fortunate enough to be associated with the types
of root fungi that supply calcium," said Timothy Fahey, a natural
resources professor at Cornell University and a co-author of the report.
Sugar maples, which in some areas have suffered major declines in recent
years, are among those that do not host the fungi, he said.
"Although our findings suggest that trees with the right fungal
associations may be able to short circuit the loss of calcium in the soil,
that may not get them around other problems with acidification of soil,"
added Fahey.
[...]
The study, "Mycorrhizal weathering of apatite as an important calcium
source in base-poor forest ecosystems," appeared in the June 13 issue of
the journal "Nature."
[Nature 417, 729 - 731 (2002)]
* * *
** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material
is distributed, without profit, for research and educational purposes
only. **
]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:11:29 -0700
From: Ashwani Vasishth <vasishth@USC.EDU>
Subject: News: GMOs May Threaten Natural Species
http://ens-news.com/ens/jun2002/2002-06-21-09.asp
GMOs Could Wipe Out Natural Species
WEST LAFAYETTE, Indiana, June 21, 2002 (ENS) - Genetically modified
organisms introduced into wild populations could drive the natural species
toward extinction, warn two Purdue University scientists.
William Muir, professor of animal sciences, and Richard Howard, professor
of biology, used computer modeling and statistical analyses to examine the
hypothetical risks of introducing genetically modified organisms into wild
populations.
"We examined these hypothetical situations because the range of new
transgenic organisms is almost unlimited," Muir said. "It is constructive
for those developing such organisms to be able to anticipate how they
could pose a hazard."
The new computer models have shown that the risk of extinction is greater
than believed before, identifying three new scenarios in which genetically
modified organisms (GMOs) could result in the extinction of a natural
population.
"In the broadest sense, this research tells one how to do risk assessment
and what GMOs need further containment," Muir said.
[...]
* * *
** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material
is distributed, without profit, for research and educational purposes
only. **
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:22:58 +0000
From: Paul Cherubini <monarch@SABER.NET>
Subject: Re: Fire in the West
Christopher Putnam wrote:
> Our AZ governor [Jane Hull] had repeated on several occasions
> that we "need to clean up our forests". What does that mean?
> Is it even possible and how much would it cost.
This article dated June 24, 2002
http://www.azstarnet.com/star/mon/20624fire2fnewhull.html
explains what Jane Hull means:
Hull, activists argue methods of forest thinning
By Thomas Stauffer and Arek Sarkissian II
ARIZONA DAILY STAR
Gov. Jane Hull said Sunday that the failure to clean out dry,
overgrown forests helped create the conditions that allowed
the Rodeo Fire to grow so fast so quickly.
Hull said many national forests like the Apache-Sitgreaves
need to be thinned through timber cutting or prescribed burns
as a means of preventing catastrophic wildfires. And, she said,
environmentalists have fought many thinning projects in national
forests.
"I've been here 40 years and I've never seen the health of this
forest so bad," she said. "The word just does not seem to get
back to the environmentalists and the courts who keep us from
cleaning up the forests. "Hopefully the message is going forward
to Congress to do something about cleaning these forests, something
nature did on a regular basis before people were here."
Environmentalists on Sunday agreed with Hull on what should
have been done to prevent this fire's severity, but not with whom
she's blaming. Environmental groups opposed thinning of forests
when it involved cutting down large trees, the groups said, not
when it involved intentional burns or the removal of smaller trees
to eliminate dense underbrush.
The government has not been committed to thinning out the
forest, said Robin Silver, conservation chairman for the Center
for Biological Diversity in Tucson. "The Sitgreaves has been
logged of all its large trees, then cattle replaced its grasslands,
promoting even more small trees," said Silver, who labeled Hull
as one of the most "anti-environmental" governors in Arizona
history.
"It's years of overgrazing, fire suppression, removal of large
trees, with no attention to small trees, that make it (the wildfire)
all very predictable," Silver said.
Sandy Bahr, conservation outreach director of the Sierra Club in Tucson
agreed, saying the only thing that has been opposed by her organization
was the cutting of large trees, which are the most resistant to fire.
"We advocate the cutting of small trees and prescribed burns. Instead of
pointing fingers, it would be nice if the governor would stop pointing
fingers and work with everyone," Bahr said.
Dale Bosworth, chief of the U.S. Forest Service, said active management
of forest lands is key to preventing catastrophic wildfires. "There is a cho
ce.
There is a way. We don't have to have this kind of fire burning in the
national forest, threatening communities and destroying homes," Bosworth
said. "The way is by doing some active management on the land. That way
is thinning the forest, getting fire back into these fire-dependent ecosyste
s."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:04:08 -0700
From: Herm Heshe <taochouns@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Fire in the West
What did those poor forest do all those millions of
years without loggers, forest managemant specialiss
and Gov. Hull to manage them?
Also, one would draw the conclusion from some of the
opinins expressed that we'd all have perfectly clean
air,water, a diverse biosphere and automobiles that
run on CO2 if those damn environmentalists would just
die and get out of the way of the market economy.
Perhaps if those Spotted Owls had gotten out of those
damn trees and gone shopping at Walmart or Home Depot
we would see value in them.
--- Paul Cherubini <monarch@SABER.NET> wrote:
> Christopher Putnam wrote:
>
> > Our AZ governor [Jane Hull] had repeated on
> several occasions
> > that we "need to clean up our forests". What does
> that mean?
> > Is it even possible and how much would it cost.
>
> This article dated June 24, 2002
>
http://www.azstarnet.com/star/mon/20624fire2fnewhull.html
> explains what Jane Hull means:
>
> Hull, activists argue methods of forest thinning
> By Thomas Stauffer and Arek Sarkissian II
> ARIZONA DAILY STAR
>
> Gov. Jane Hull said Sunday that the failure to clean
> out dry,
> overgrown forests helped create the conditions that
> allowed
> the Rodeo Fire to grow so fast so quickly.
>
> Hull said many national forests like the
> Apache-Sitgreaves
> need to be thinned through timber cutting or
> prescribed burns
> as a means of preventing catastrophic wildfires.
> And, she said,
> environmentalists have fought many thinning projects
> in national
> forests.
>
> "I've been here 40 years and I've never seen the
> health of this
> forest so bad," she said. "The word just does not
> seem to get
> back to the environmentalists and the courts who
> keep us from
> cleaning up the forests. "Hopefully the message is
> going forward
> to Congress to do something about cleaning these
> forests, something
> nature did on a regular basis before people were
> here."
>
> Environmentalists on Sunday agreed with Hull on what
> should
> have been done to prevent this fire's severity, but
> not with whom
> she's blaming. Environmental groups opposed thinning
> of forests
> when it involved cutting down large trees, the
> groups said, not
> when it involved intentional burns or the removal of
> smaller trees
> to eliminate dense underbrush.
>
> The government has not been committed to thinning
> out the
> forest, said Robin Silver, conservation chairman for
> the Center
> for Biological Diversity in Tucson. "The Sitgreaves
> has been
> logged of all its large trees, then cattle replaced
> its grasslands,
> promoting even more small trees," said Silver, who
> labeled Hull
> as one of the most "anti-environmental" governors in
> Arizona
> history.
>
> "It's years of overgrazing, fire suppression,
> removal of large
> trees, with no attention to small trees, that make
> it (the wildfire)
> all very predictable," Silver said.
>
> Sandy Bahr, conservation outreach director of the
> Sierra Club in Tucson
> agreed, saying the only thing that has been opposed
> by her organization
> was the cutting of large trees, which are the most
> resistant to fire.
> "We advocate the cutting of small trees and
> prescribed burns. Instead of
> pointing fingers, it would be nice if the governor
> would stop pointing
> fingers and work with everyone," Bahr said.
>
> Dale Bosworth, chief of the U.S. Forest Service,
> said active management
> of forest lands is key to preventing catastrophic
> wildfires. "There is a choice.
> There is a way. We don't have to have this kind of
> fire burning in the
> national forest, threatening communities and
> destroying homes," Bosworth
> said. "The way is by doing some active management on
> the land. That way
> is thinning the forest, getting fire back into these
> fire-dependent ecosystems."
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:16:23 +0000
From: Paul Cherubini <monarch@SABER.NET>
Subject: Re: Fire in the West
Christopher Putnam wrote:
> As most are probably aware the wildfires we are now
> seeing are unprecedented in historic times.
I found some national statistics that indicate the average
number of wildland fires has been relatively stable over the past
80 years and the average acres burned per fire has actually
gone down dramatically since 1950*
http://membersites.nwbombers.com/dalkena/acreage.jpg
Also, although the current fires in Colorado and Arizona
are 200,000 - 400,000 acres in size, they are still substantially
smaller than some wildland fires that occured in the West
about 100 years ago. For example, this website
http://www.nifc.gov/stats/historicalstats.html
has a table showing that in Sept. 1902 there was a fire in
Oregon and Washington that burned over 1,000,000 acres. In
Aug. 1910 there was a fire in Montana and Idaho that burned
3,000,000 acres and killed 85 people. Most astonishing of
all was a fire in Wisconsin / Michigan in 1871 that burned
3,780,000 acres and claimed 1,500 lives.
Paul Cherubini
Placerville, Calif.
*data copied from this website
http://www.nifc.gov/stats/wildlandfirestats.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:21:45 -0500
From: Robert Dana <robert.dana@DNR.STATE.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Fire in the West
Not exactly ecology, but pertinent to this thread--here's an editorial
from the AZ Republic in response to the Gov's and other politicians'
assertions:
http://www.arizonarepublic.com/special35/articles/0625montini25.html
*************************************************************
Robert Dana, Ph.D.
MN DNR
Natural Heritage and Nongame Research Program
500 Lafayette Rd, Box 25
St. Paul, MN 55155
651 297-2367
Email: robert.dana@dnr.state.mn.us
*************************************************************
>>> Paul Cherubini <monarch@saber.net> 6/24/02 7:22:58 PM >
>>
Christopher Putnam wrote:
> Our AZ governor [Jane Hull] had repeated on several occasions
> that we "need to clean up our forests". What does that mean?
> Is it even possible and how much would it cost.
This article dated June 24, 2002
http://www.azstarnet.com/star/mon/20624fire2fnewhull.html
explains what Jane Hull means:
Hull, activists argue methods of forest thinning
By Thomas Stauffer and Arek Sarkissian II
ARIZONA DAILY STAR
Gov. Jane Hull said Sunday that the failure to clean out dry,
overgrown forests helped create the conditions that allowed
the Rodeo Fire to grow so fast so quickly.
Hull said many national forests like the Apache-Sitgreaves
need to be thinned through timber cutting or prescribed burns
as a means of preventing catastrophic wildfires. And, she said,
environmentalists have fought many thinning projects in national
forests.
"I've been here 40 years and I've never seen the health of this
forest so bad," she said. "The word just does not seem to get
back to the environmentalists and the courts who keep us from
cleaning up the forests. "Hopefully the message is going forward
to Congress to do something about cleaning these forests, something
nature did on a regular basis before people were here."
Environmentalists on Sunday agreed with Hull on what should
have been done to prevent this fire's severity, but not with whom
she's blaming. Environmental groups opposed thinning of forests
when it involved cutting down large trees, the groups said, not
when it involved intentional burns or the removal of smaller trees
to eliminate dense underbrush.
The government has not been committed to thinning out the
forest, said Robin Silver, conservation chairman for the Center
for Biological Diversity in Tucson. "The Sitgreaves has been
logged of all its large trees, then cattle replaced its grasslands,
promoting even more small trees," said Silver, who labeled Hull
as one of the most "anti-environmental" governors in Arizona
history.
"It's years of overgrazing, fire suppression, removal of large
trees, with no attention to small trees, that make it (the wildfire)
all very predictable," Silver said.
Sandy Bahr, conservation outreach director of the Sierra Club in
Tucson
agreed, saying the only thing that has been opposed by her
organization
was the cutting of large trees, which are the most resistant to fire.
"We advocate the cutting of small trees and prescribed burns. Instead
of
pointing fingers, it would be nice if the governor would stop pointing
fingers and work with everyone," Bahr said.
Dale Bosworth, chief of the U.S. Forest Service, said active
management
of forest lands is key to preventing catastrophic wildfires. "There is
a choice.
There is a way. We don't have to have this kind of fire burning in the
national forest, threatening communities and destroying homes,"
Bosworth
said. "The way is by doing some active management on the land. That
way
is thinning the forest, getting fire back into these fire-dependent
ecosystems."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:04:00 -0500
From: Michael Winterrowd <wintemf@GROUPWISE1.DUC.AUBURN.EDU>
Subject: FIRES
I agree that the fires are being used for political gain by the
anti-environmental, pro-business conservatives. I'd like to pin some
blame on two purveyors of this overly simplistic view. Yesterday on the
Fox evening news report, the anchorman was ranting and raving about the
Sierra Club and the Wilderness Society being the direct cause of the
severity of this season's wild fires. The Republican governor of Idaho
was a guest on the show and he agreed that environmentalists are to
blame. If we choose our news programs and elected officials judiciously
maybe we can reduce the amount of anti-science, anti-intellectual
claptrap that gets passed off as news and perpetuated by those in
office. That's not much good for the current fire season but could
help in the future. As another plug against the Fox News propaganda
machine of Rupert Murdoch and for that liberal rag the New York Times,
Dr. Stephen J. Pyne of the Arizona State Biology Dept. has written an
excellent discussion of the problem in the editorial column of today's
paper.
Mike Winterrowd, Ph.D.
Post Doctoral Fellow
Department of Biological Sciences
101 Life Sciences
Auburn University, AL 36849
phone: 334-844-1672
fax: 334-844-1645
email: wintemf@auburn.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:19:17 -0700
From: Patrick Foley <patfoley@CSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fire in the West
Christopher and others burning to know,
We do not know as much about fire ecology as we need to know to deal with fi
es
in the western United States. Forest fire modeling is a landscape level prob
em
similar in some ways to landscape level disease epidemiology for which we al
o
only have partial models and partial historical understanding.
Here is the (peer-reviewed) executive summary from the Sierra Nevada Ecosyst
m
Project report(which the US Congress ordered in 1993 and which can be found
online (see http://ceres.ca.gov/snep/).
* Fire and Fuels
Ecological Functions of Fire Fire is a natural
evolutionary force that has influenced Sierran ecosystems for
millennia, influencing biodiversity, plant reproducti
n,
vegetation development, insect outbreak and disease
cycles, wildlife habitat relationships, soil function
and nutrient cycling, gene flow, selection, and, ultimately,
sustainability. Most vegetation types below the subal
ine
zone have been highly influenced by and are adapted to regular
fire.
Effects of Climate Climatic variation plays an import
nt
role in influencing fire patterns and severity; fires have
been most extensive in periods of dry years. During
cool-climate periods of the past centuries, fires were less
numerous but larger than during warm-climate periods.
Presettlement Fire Regimes In most low-elevation oak
woodland and conifer forest types of the Sierra Nevada,
presettlement fires were frequent, collectively cover
d
large areas, burned for months at a time, and, although
primarily low to moderate in intensity, exhibited com
lex
patterns of severity. Locally severe fires occurred and
played an important role in forest dynamics. It is
unclear what spectrum and frequency of patch sizes (a few acres to
thousands of acres) were created by severe fire; howe
er,
contiguous areas of predominately high-intensity fire larger than
a few thousand acres almost certainly were much less
common than today.
Effects of Suppression Fire suppression in concert wi
h
changing land-use practices has dramatically changed
the fire regimes of the Sierra Nevada and thereby alt
red
ecological structures and functions in Sierran plant
communities. Alterations have occurred especially in
plant communities historically influenced by frequent low- to
moderate-intensity fire.
Fuel Conditions Live and dead fuels in todays conifer
forests are more abundant and continuous than in the
past. Many factors have affected fuel quantities and
distribution in Sierran forests, including variation in climate, timber
harvest, mining, grazing, human settlement patterns a
d
land-use practices, and nearly a century of fire suppression.
Effects of Logging Timber harvest, through its effect
on
forest structure, local microclimate, and fuel
accumulation, has increased fire severity more than a
y
other recent human activity. If not accompanied by
adequate reduction of fuels, logging (including salva
e
of dead and dying trees) increases fire hazard by increasing surface
dead fuels and changing the local microclimate. Fire
intensity and expected fire spread rates thus increase locally and in
areas adjacent to harvest. However, logging can serve
as
a tool to help reduce fire hazard when slash is adequately treated
and treatments are maintained.
Fire Size Trends The commonly expected consequence of
decades of fire suppressionthat large, infrequent
fires are becoming larger and small, frequent fires
smalleris generally not confirmed by records for
twentieth-century Sierran forests. The central wester
Sierra Nevada is the only region where evidence exists that this
pattern has occurred. This region has experienced the
greatest increase in human population, which has affected both the
incidence of fire ignitions and the suppression
strategies once fires have begun. By contrast, the Plumas National Forest ha
had no change in the observed size and frequency of f
res
during this century, and in SequoiaKings Canyon National Parks
small, frequent fires are larger and large, infrequen
fires are smaller than before 1950, that is, the opposite pattern to that in
the central western Sierra Nevada. The latter
observations are complicated by the active prescribed fire-management
program in the parks, the results of which are includ
d
in these data.
Fire Surrogates Although silvicultural treatments can
mimic the effects of fire on structural patterns of woody
vegetation, virtually no data exist on the ability to
mimic ecological functions of natural fire. Silvicultural
treatments can create patterns of woody vegetation th
t
appear similar to those that fire would create, but the
consequences for nutrient cycling, hydrology, seed
scarification, nonwoody vegetation response, plant diversity, disease and
insect infestation, and genetic diversity are mostly
unknown. Similarly, although combining managed fire with silvicultural
treatments adds the critical effects of combustion, t
e
ecological effects and fire hazard reduction of this approach are
largely unknown.
Urban-Wildlands Intermix Projected trends in urban
settlementhomes intermixed with flammable
wildlandsplace an increasing number of homes and peop
e
at high risk of loss from wildfire unless hazards are
mitigated. Current fuel levels and projected future u
es,
especially in the west-central Sierra Nevada foothills and lower
mixed conifer zones, are incompatible without active
uel
management. The presence of homes can force changes in
suppression strategies and increase suppression costs
There is a lot more in the thousands of pages of this report. You may also w
nt
to look at James K. Agee 1993. Fire Ecology of Pacific Northwest Forests. Is
and
Press, Washington, D. C. or some of the 21 volumes of the Tall Timbers
Conference proceedings. I also saw a short recent book by Stephen Arno on Fi
e
Ecology. But nobody has all the answers (except Republican politicians).
If we need to assess blame for western fires, there is plenty to go around:
1) Mother Nature who causes plants to grow, die, dry up and be vulnerable to
fire.
2) Logging practices that do not lower fuel loads much while removing the mo
t
fire resistant trees and encouraging dense plantations of even-aged stands.
3) Overgrazing that leads to increased shrub coverage and dense conifer thic
ets
rather than more open stands.
4) Smokey the Bear for the misquided fire-suppression policy on public lands
over the past 60 years.
5) Bureaucratic styles and structures that make it difficult to take the
inevitable risks of implementing prescribed fires.
6) Know-nothing attitudes pushed by right wing pundits and politicians who
discourage funding for environmental research and won't look at it when it i
done. For example, global warming will lead to massive changes in fire regim
s -
but who cares? Not Rush, not Bush.
7) Academic ecology and environmental studies departments for failing to ins
st
that students are thoroughly trained in the physical and mathematical scienc
s
so that they can help to solve the enorously difficult problems they want to
solve.
8) All of us for failing to insist on excellent science and intelligent,
knowledgeable leaders.
Patrick Foley
patfoley@csus.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:53:31 -0400
From: "Stinson, Graham" <gstinson@PFC.FORESTRY.CA>
Subject: job posting for forest ecosystem carbon modeller
Dear Colleague,
Can you please assist me in bringing to the attention of potentially
interested persons the following position to work with the Canadian Forest
Service and the Canadian Model Forest Network on the development and
application of operational-scale forest carbon budget modelling tools.
Details are posted on the Public Service Commission's website:
Forest Ecosystem Carbon Modeller
http://www.jobs.gc.ca/jobs/p024999e.htm
The position is a 2 year term with strong possibility for renewal, located
at the Pacific Forestry Centre in Victoria, BC, Canada.
All applications must go directly to the Public Service Commission by July
5, 2002. Applicants must not contact me directly.
Many thanks !
Graham Stinson
Graham Stinson
Physical Scientist: Spatial Carbon Budget Modelling
Natural Resources Canada
Canadian Forest Service
Pacific Forestry Centre
506 West Burnside Road
Victoria, B.C. V8Z 1M5
phone: 250-363-0732
fax: 250-363-0797
gstinson@nrcan.gc.ca
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:26:53 -0500
From: mtuten@GUSTAVUS.EDU
Subject: FW: Fire in the West
For thousands of years the ponderosa pine/grassland ecosystem type was not
subjected to:
grazing by thousands of head of cattle and sheep,
commercial logging,
large piles of logging slash,
fire supression...
I think the main thing to remember here is that the ponderosa Pine forest of
today is an
altogether different variation of what it was before Anglo-american
settlement.
Today its a dense closed-canopy forest composed almost entirely of trees les
than 100
years old. The understory, or lack of understory, is an almost continuous
carpet of pine
litter. For years this forest has been supporting larger and larger stand
replacing
wildfires.
Unfortunately, the "solution" to this forest dillema is very similar to the
action (logging)
that got us to this point in the first place. Thinning isn't an inexpensive
option either,
and often costs are reduced through the thinning and sale of old-growth tree
.
The result of
thinning, especially to pre-setlement densities, changes the look of the for
st
entirely,
thinned or managed areas in have often been described by some environmentali
ts
as "nuked" or "clear cut";
an almost entirely aesthetic judgement. The reality of thinned forests in th
Southwest is that these
forests is that they are more ecologically diverse in terms of understory an
wildlife, they are
less prone to support ecosystem destroying crown fires and they are closer i
appearance to what
was described by the first settlers. Yet environmental organizations have
blocked forest thinning
throughout the Southwest, often through legal technicalities having little t
do with the affects
of the thinning treatments. In many cases environmental organizations in
Arizona, distrustful of the
USFS and any sort of logging, have not put forth ecologically sound reasonin
for blocking
forest treatments, and are often in direct opposition with informed scientif
c
opinion.
The opinions of Hull and Bosworth express the sense that time is running out
for
these forests. Without restoration, or at least some sort of thinning or fue
reduction, fires
will likely destroy these forests in the next few decades, and its likely th
y
will not return as
Ponderosa Pine forest for hundreds of years. Take a look at Mt. Elden near
Flagstaff for a good example
of what a devastating fire in the 70's did to a mountainous pine forest. A
thinned forest is better than no
forest at all. While forest management is stalled, the forests are burning.
I apologize for the length of this response, but this issue hits close to ho
e-
stepping down from my soapbox... matt
> Greetings,
>
> I posted this message on another list as well, so please pardon me for
he
> cross posting. I usually just monitor the various discussions on this,
and
> other, lists but I'm very interested in some discussion regarding the
> current wildfires in the American West. As most are probably aware the
> wildfires we are now seeing are unprecedented in historic times. In Ar
zona
> we are seeing massive wildfire activity in our Ponderosa Pine forests a
> well as our other forest and non-forested areas. The intensive fire
> activity acting on these ecosystems and the loss of property along with
all
> the human anguish is, in my opinion, a genuine tragedy. What I am find
ng
> deeply disturbing are some of the comments I have heard from our politi
al
> leaders and from the press. Many times now I've heard some official, f
om
> the AZ Governor on down, and the press freely repeats these comments, s
y
> things like "we don't want to start blaming anyone, but we really need
o do
> something about these environmentalists and all these lawsuits." This
s
> not a direct quote from any one person, just a synthesis of what I've h
ard
> lately from several sources.
>
> As I understand the problem here in the West, and the Southwest in
> particular, the Ponderosa Pine forest ecosystem is a fire adapted syste
.
> Fire shaped the evolution of these forests and is an integral element o
> their ecological functions. For the past many decades fire has been
> suppressed to the best ability of humans to do so in these forests. Th
se
> forests have been logged for decades, some up until very recently. I t
ink
> some areas are still logged to some extent. The density of these pine
> forests is abnormally dense due to certain logging practices, suppressi
n of
> fire and possibly other reasons. Then we also have increasing human
> activity and development of forest into residential and other human use
> areas. All of this in the context of drought throughout the region. A
ain,
> this is my understanding of the situation and I'm not a fire ecology ex
ert.
>
>
> It seems to me that this issue is complex and the development of what w
are
> seeing now has taken place for decades. Accumulation of fuels in the f
rest
> is due to many factors including fire suppression and certain logging
> practices. So when I hear people, particularly political persons who s
em
> to have an agenda, start laying blame on "environmentalists" I get
> frustrated. Just exactly who is an environmentalist in this situation?
> Does that mean anyone who has ever supported altering how we utilize th
se
> forest resources? Or is it anyone who opposes destructive logging? Ma
e no
> mistake, I am not opposed to logging in general. I just know there are
> different ways to log timber and some are easier, cheaper and less habi
at
> friendly while others may require more skill, cost and effort. I have s
en
> both with my own eyes and there is a difference.
>
> I have not heard one peep from anyone opposing these inaccurate stateme
ts,
> in Arizona or elsewhere. I have heard a number of the general public,
nd
> some media personalities, repeat these accusatory statements and go eve
> further. With habitat issues as politicized as they have become I thin
we,
> as professionals, need to inject some facts and reason into this potent
al
> bashing. I see a "pro logging and anything else is wrong" situation
> developing. Our AZ governor had repeated on several occasions that we
need
> to clean up our forests". What does that mean? Is it even possible an
how
> much would it cost. Fire was the mechanism for this very thing so are
e
> proposing replacing certain ecosystem functions with an anthropogenic
> mechanism? How does that effect the forest? If we send work crews and
> equipment into every area of our forests to "clean them up" what are th
> consequences for habitat fragmentation, erosion, and even more fire?
>
> This is all very troubling to hear while the fires still rage and homes
are
> destroyed and forests are altered our political leaders are wasting no
ime
> and "spinning" the situation to their advantage. What do the members o
the
> list think?
>
>
> Christopher Putnam
> Research Technician
> Arizona State University
> Center for Environmental Studies
> Tempe, AZ 85287-3211
> Ph: (480) 965-4642
> Fx: (480) 965-8087
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:35:26 -0600
From: Noah Greenwald <ngreenwald@BIOLOGICALDIVERSITY.ORG>
Subject: Fwd: AZ Fire Update: Help Needed
Hi Folks,
Here is the environmentalist response, in the form of a request to write
letters to the editor, to charges that environmental groups are to blame
for the recent fires.
Noah
>Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 20:45:13 +0000
>From: Center for Biological Diversity <center@biologicaldiversity.org>
>Subject: AZ Fire Update: Help Needed
>To: Noah Greenwald <ngreenwald@biologicaldiversity.org>
>Reply-to: notice-reply-ww5dxg4l78xmb8@actionnetwork.org
>Original-recipient: rfc822;ngreenwald@biologicaldiversity.org
>
>
>As the Rodeo and Chediski fires continue in eastern
>Arizona, governor Jane Hull is blaming environmentalists
>for the forest fires. A few newspapers have taken up
>the charge, criticizing environmentalists, and a few
>have not. Environmental groups throughout Arizona are
>receiving hate-mail and phone calls blaming them for
>the losses. In general, the current discussion regarding
>the forest fires is missing many of the most pressing
>issues facing our forests and communities.
>
>In truth, the Center for Biological Diversity, as well
>as the Sierra Club and the Southwest Forest Alliance,
>have for years been supporting and promoting projects
>that would reduce fire risk within our forests, and
>reduce the fire threat to communities. We have promoted
>forest restoration thinning projects that remove the
>small trees that make up the vast majority of the fire
>threat. We have promoted prescribed burning that would
>reduce forest fuels. We have promoted community protection
>projects within the wildland-urban interface, in and
>around communities. However, we have opposed, and will
>continue to oppose, irresponsible logging that removes
>the remnants of old growth and large trees, and fails
>to provide forests or communities any protection from
>the threat of forest fires.
>
>We can not allow the tragic losses of homes to become
>the justification for large-scale logging of large
>trees. That is not the way to protect our communities
>and forests. We want to remove the small fuels, by
>thinning and prescribed burning, that is presenting
>the actual fire threat.
>
>Please write letters to the editor of your local newspapers,
>and let them know that you are not fooled by governor
>Hull's ridiculous claims, misinformation, and misrepresentations.
>Keep in mind, your letter needs to be from you, and
>unique. Do not just clip and paste the following points,
>put it in your own words. Tell them who you are, where
>you live, and why you care.
>
>The following are some potential points that may be
>used in your letter:
>
>* I am not fooled by the disingenuous efforts of Governor
>Hull to scapegoat environmentalists for the forest
>fires. Now is not the time to be irresponsibly laying
>blame and attempting to make political gains. Instead
>it is the time to understand what constitutes the forest
>fire threat, and how to mitigate that threat.
>
>* The size and intensity of the current forest fires
>are due to many things, such as drought and the accumulation
>of fuels and small trees. We can do nothing about the
>drought, but we can work on removing the small trees
>that make up the vast majority of the fire hazard.
>This can be accomplished through thinning projects
>and prescribed burning.
>
>* In order to immediately reduce the threat of forest
>fire, we need the Forest Service to implement projects
>that protect communities, not cut large trees in the
>middle of the forest. Large ponderosa pine trees are
>rare and extremely valuable to the forest ecosystem,
>as well as being relatively fire-resistant compared
>to the small trees. Large trees are not the problem,
>and logging is not the answer.
>
>* In order to protect communities, we need to clean
>up hazardous fuels and thin small trees in and around
>communities. This is the only way to protect houses
>from forest fires.
>
>* Furthermore, we need to address the factors that
>have affected our forest over the past hundred years:
>fire suppression, cattle grazing, and logging have
>created the forest conditions that set the stage for
>these fires.
>
>Thanks you so much for your help,
>Center for Biological Diversity
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>
>Visit the web address below and tell your friends about
>this important issue!
>
>http://actionnetwork.org/join-forward.html?domain=BIODIVERSITY&r=f1zFS46
mq-W
>
>If you received this message from a friend, you can
>sign up for Center for Biological Diversity - Biodiversity
>Activist at:
>
>http://actionnetwork.org/BIODIVERSITY/join.html?r=f1zFS461mq-WE
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>
>If you would like to unsubscribe from Center for Biological
>Diversity - Biodiversity Activist, you can respond
>to this email with "REMOVE" as the subject, or you
>can visit your subscription management page at:
>
>http://actionnetwork.org/pvtm/index.tcl?nkey=ww5dxg4l78xmb8
>
>***********************************
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>The Leader in Online Campaigns
>http://www.getactive.com
>***********************************
Please note email address ngreenwald@biologicaldiversity.org
Noah Greenwald
Conservation Biologist
Center for Biological Diversity
PO Box 5101
Bozeman, MT 59717
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:37:03 -0600
From: Noah Greenwald <ngreenwald@BIOLOGICALDIVERSITY.ORG>
Subject: Fwd: Arizona Fire Update (More on Environmentalists response)
Here is more on environmentalists response to charges that they are to blame
>Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:35:27 +0000
>From: Center for Biological Diveristy <center@biologicaldiversity.org>
>Subject: Arizona Fire Update
>To: Noah Greenwald <ngreenwald@biologicaldiversity.org>
>Reply-to: notice-reply-ww5dxg4f78xmbm@actionnetwork.org
>Original-recipient: rfc822;ngreenwald@biologicaldiversity.org
>
>Dear Noah,
>
>NEWS ADVISORY: Monday, June 24
>CONTACT: Brian Segee, (520) 623-5252 x308
>More Information:
>http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/Programs/fire/index.html
>
>STATE PRESSURED FOREST SERVICE TO HALT FUELS REDUCTION
>PROJECT IN RODEO BURN AREA
>
>GOVERNOR HULL SCAPEGOATS ENVIRONMENTALISTS FOR LARGEST
>FIRES IN ARIZONA HISTORY
>
>As Arizona faces its largest wildfire in history with
>hundreds of homes destroyed and thousands of people
>evacuated from their homes, Governor Jane Hull has
>seized upon the tragedy to advance her own anti-environmental
>agenda: On Sunday, June 23rd, Hull appeared on television
>to blame environmentalists for the fire.
>
>The Governor predictably failed to explain how environmentalists
>were to blame for the fires. Additionally, the Governor
>failed to mention 1) that a prescribed fire set by
>the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuel loads within
>the burned area was stopped by state intervention,
>2) the vast majority of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
>Forests have been previously logged by the U.S. Forest
>Service, 3) a recent report by the Government Accounting
>Office (GAO) found that only 1% of Forest Service fuel
>reduction projects were challenged with appeals or
>lawsuits, and 4) a second recent report by the GAO
>found that the Forest Service has misdirected funds
>from its massive fuels reduction budget away from the
>protection of rural communities threatened by fire.
>
>
>The Los Angeles Times recently reported that a prescribed
>fire set by the U.S. Forest Service to reduce fuels
>in what is now the Rodeo-Chediski fire was stopped
>by unwarranted intervention by state agencies:
>
>"When controlled burns were set recently in the Apache
>Sitgreaves National Forest, where the Rodeo fire now
>rages, nearby residents complained to state air quality
>officials about the smoke. The state pressured Forest
>Service officials to extinguish the blazes prematurely,
>Anderson (planner on the Apache-Sitgreaves National
>Forest) said. "Other plans to start controlled burns
>have been blocked by litigation, he said." (17 Blazes
>Charring the West, Los Angeles Times, 6-23-02).
>
>The Governor's scapegoating of environmentalists is
>fundamentally inaccurate. The Center for Biological
>Diversity (CBD), Sierra Club, Southwest Forest Alliance
>and other environmental organizations have long supported
>the use of both prescribed fire and thinning of small-diameter
>trees as the most effective methods to reduce fire
>danger within Southwestern ponderosa pine forests.
>Ironically, CBD sits on Governor's Forest Health/Fire
>Plan Advisory Committee, a group appointed by Jane
>Hull to advise governor on community protection and
>forest restoration issues and to make recommendations
>on where to spend National Fire Plan funds. We also
>are on Senator Bingaman's (D-NM) Community Forest Restoration
>Program Advisory Committee, which is charged with distribution
>of $ 5 million annually to rural communities for forest
>restoration and community protection.
>
>"The Governor is opportunistically and cynically using
>this on-going tragedy to further an anti-environmental
>agenda," stated Brian Segee with CBD. "Not only do
>we strongly support community protection efforts such
>as wildland-urban interface treatments, prescribed
>burning and small-diameter thinning, we are deeply
>involved in on-going collaborative and governmental
>efforts to make such goals a reality."
>
>Independent studies conducted by the federal government
>also directly contradict charges that environmental
>organizations are preventing needed fuels reduction
>projects from being completed. As stated in an August
>2001 report by the Government Accounting Office (GAO),
>an independent investigative branch of Congress:
>
>"In summary, as of July 18, 2001, the Forest Service
>has completed the necessary environmental analysis
>and had decided to implement 1,671 hazardous fuel reduction
>projects in fiscal year 2001. Of these projects, 20
>(about 1 percent) had been appealed and none had been
>litigated. Appellants included environmental groups,
>recreation groups, private industry interests, and
>individuals."
>
>Under the National Fire Plan, passed in the wake of
>2000's intense fire season, the Forest Service and
>other federal agencies were given over $2 billion
>to thin brush and small-diameter trees, with an emphasis
>on community protection. GAO research has concluded
>that the Forest Service could not account for how this
>money was being spent. In a January 2002 GAO report
>entitled "Severe Wildland Fires: Leadership and Accountability
>Needed to Reduce Risks to Communities and Resources,"
>it is stated:
>
>"Over a year after the Congress substantially increased
>funds to reduce hazardous fuels, the federal effort
>still lacks clearly defined and effective leadership
>. . .it is not possible to determine if the $796 million
>appropriated for hazardous fuels reduction in fiscal
>years 2001 and 2002 is targeted to the communities
>and other areas at highest risk of severe wildland
>fires."
>
>Finally, forgotten in the Governor's continued and
>escalating attack against environmentalists is the
>fact that almost all of the Apache-Sitgreaves National
>Forests where the two fires are burning has been intensively
>logged. Almost no area along the relatively flat and
>easily accessible Mogollon Rim has been spared from
>logging.
>
>For more information,
>http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/Programs/fire/index.html
>
>(end)
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>
>Visit the web address below and tell your friends about
>this important issue!
>
>http://actionnetwork.org/join-forward.html?domain=BIODIVERSITY&r=r7zFS46
mq-6
>
>If you received this message from a friend, you can
>sign up for Center for Biological Diversity - Biodiversity
>Activist at:
>
>http://actionnetwork.org/BIODIVERSITY/join.html?r=r7zFS461mq-6E
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>
>If you would like to unsubscribe from Center for Biological
>Diversity - Biodiversity Activist, you can respond
>to this email with "REMOVE" as the subject, or you
>can visit your subscription management page at:
>
>http://actionnetwork.org/pvtm/index.tcl?nkey=ww5dxg4f78xmbm
>
>***********************************
>Powered by GetActive Software, Inc.
>The Leader in Online Campaigns
>http://www.getactive.com
>***********************************
Please note email address ngreenwald@biologicaldiversity.org
Noah Greenwald
Conservation Biologist
Center for Biological Diversity
PO Box 5101
Bozeman, MT 59717
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:47:32 -0700
From: cmm65 <Chris.McGlone@NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fire in the West
Just a couple thoughts: All of the fires listed on the NIFC website that
occurred in Colorado, Arizona or New Mexico were substantially smaller that
this year's wildfires. It's important we not lump different ecosystems
together when we examine changes in wildfire size and intensity. The fires
e
are seeing in the ponderosa pine forests of the arid southwest are indeed
unprecedented in historic times.
The reasons for the increase in wildfire size and intensity are manifold (se
Christopher Putnam and Matt Tuten's earlier emails). The solution to these
problems are not as well documented as we would like. It is, however, fairl
certain that some combination of thinning and burning is necessary to reduce
the fire hazard. There is also a growing body of evidence that by thinning
these forests, the ponderosa pine populations would be returned (at least
structurally) to a state similar to how it was before fire supression and
intensive grazing occurred (if you want references for all of this, please
write and I'll send them to you). The evidence is still incomplete as to wh
t
else needs to be done to restore overall biodiversity in these areas, but
thinning and burning seems to be a step in the right direction.
That said, I must say I share the concern that environmentalists are taking
the brunt of the blame for the problems with the SW ponderosa pine forests.
While I do agree that environmental groups have been excessive in hindering
restoration efforts in the Southwest, I also understand that there are some
very valid reasons for there behavior. The main reason is a deep-rooted
distrust for federal land managing agencies. The fact that Southwestern
forests are in such poor ecological health is that federal agencies have
mismanaged the forests for decades. Many environmental groups are doubtful
that these agencies will get it right this time.
The Southwest is currently in a state of near-panic over the fire danger. I
response to this, there have been a lot of calls for reform of environmental
protection laws. These reforms would make it very difficult for anyone to
challenge federal land management policies. I must say I think that this is
a
bad idea. I have my doubts that, given the political climate around here,
reforms will be made using sound or far-sighted ecological knowledge.
That's my 2 cents worth. Keep praying for rain.
Chris McGlone
>===== Original Message From Paul Cherubini <monarch@SABER.NET> ===
=
>Christopher Putnam wrote:
>
>> As most are probably aware the wildfires we are now
>> seeing are unprecedented in historic times.
>
>I found some national statistics that indicate the average
>number of wildland fires has been relatively stable over the past
>80 years and the average acres burned per fire has actually
>gone down dramatically since 1950*
>http://membersites.nwbombers.com/dalkena/acreage.jpg
>
>Also, although the current fires in Colorado and Arizona
>are 200,000 - 400,000 acres in size, they are still substantially
>smaller than some wildland fires that occured in the West
>about 100 years ago. For example, this website
>http://www.nifc.gov/stats/historicalstats.html
>has a table showing that in Sept. 1902 there was a fire in
>Oregon and Washington that burned over 1,000,000 acres. In
>Aug. 1910 there was a fire in Montana and Idaho that burned
>3,000,000 acres and killed 85 people. Most astonishing of
>all was a fire in Wisconsin / Michigan in 1871 that burned
>3,780,000 acres and claimed 1,500 lives.
>
>Paul Cherubini
>Placerville, Calif.
>*data copied from this website
>http://www.nifc.gov/stats/wildlandfirestats.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christopher M. McGlone
Ecological Restoration Institute
Northern Arizona University, Box 15017
Flagstaff, AZ 86011
Chris.McGlone@nau.edu
(928)523-7739
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
End of ECOLOG-L Digest - 24 Jun 2002 to 25 Jun 2002 (#2002-163)
***************************************************************
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
Thanks to discussion with TVR, I have decided to put a link to back files of the discussion group. This months back files.
The link to complete archives is available elsewhere.
This text was originally an e-mail. It was converted using a program
RUPANTAR- a simple e-mail-to-html converter.
(c)Kolatkar Milind. kmilind@ces.iisc.ernet.in