Subject: ECOLOG-L Digest - 18 Aug 2001 to 19 Aug 2001
To: Recipients of ECOLOG-L digests <ECOLOG-L@UMDD.UMD.EDU>
Status: R
There is one message totalling 321 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. News: Counting Critters
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:41:15 -0700
From: Ashwani Vasishth <vasishth@USC.EDU>
Subject: News: Counting Critters
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-000066912aug18.story?coll=la%2Dnews%2
sci
ence
Los Angeles Timse:
August 18, 2001
COLUMN ONE
Constantly Counting Creatures
Keeping track of animals in the wild is a never-ending job. The
reliability of such tallies is often suspect, but they are used as a basis
for policy decisions.
By SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON, TIMES STAFF WRITER
The government counts people every 10 years, but the counting of animals
almost never stops.
Just ask Chris Haas, who wrestles coyotes and bobcats near La Puente to
fit them with ear tags and radio collars. Or Joan Venette, who annually
scans the ocean from atop a Rancho Palos Verdes cliff, watching for
California gray whales. Or Eloise Tavares, who every six months zaps Lake
Casitas with electricity and tallies the stunned fish that float to the
surface.
Wild animal counts conducted by state and federal authorities affect
myriad aspects of American life, increasingly influencing public policy
and industry, shaping housing and highways, even determining what we
eat. Take white abalone. The delicacy came under federal protection in May
after biologists found that fewer than 2,600 adults remained off the West
Coast.
Then there's the American bald eagle. The national symbol is expected to
be removed from the federal Endangered Species List, after biologists
recently counted at least 5,748 breeding pairs, up from 417 pairs in 1963.
But researchers concede that many such tallies are imprecise at best,
despite the exact numbers in their reports on everything from bears to
butterflies. The counting is tough work, and techniques vary widely: Some
biologists spend hours on stools clicking hand-held counters; others
gather dander and droppings so they can derive numbers through DNA
analysis.
Both conservationists and developers mistrust the reports, depending on
how the numbers are used. Some landowners fear that their properties could
be tied up by federal regulations if a species is found to be
threatened. And animal rights groups denounce some counts that permit
renewed hunting.
Pennsylvania recently ended a 30-year moratorium on bobcat hunting after a
controversial estimate that more than 3,100 of them roam the state. The
count was based on road kill numbers, bobcats accidentally caught in
traps, and sightings of the cats and their tracks by conservation officers
and hunters.
When hunters failed to bag even a fifth of the 290 animals allowed last
year, the Pennsylvania Game Commission decided to nearly double the number
of hunting permits in the upcoming season to 520. Hunters successfully
argued that the small catch showed there are plenty of bobcats out
there. Conservationists say the number means just the opposite.
Given the difficulty of their task, many researchers are uncomfortable
seeing their work used as ammunition in such disputes. They prefer to
describe their tallies as "estimates," "trends" or "distributions."
Spotting gray whales, for example, is tricky work. Fog and rain can blur
the view of counters perched on California cliffs. Some whales might swim
by at night. And finally, it's up to Eschrichtius robustus to make an
appearance.
"There's a blow!" cried volunteer counter Carl Etow one Saturday last
spring after he glimpsed a telltale vapor plume above the waves.
The gray's dark back burst above the waterline less than 1,000 feet from
the Palos Verdes Peninsula, raising the morning tally to four.
"It's always a thrill to see a whale, especially when you see one up
close," said Venette, a retired nurse who has logged 11,000 hours tracking
the creatures.
After almost half a century of legal protection against whalers who hunted
them to the brink of extinction, gray whales were taken off the Endangered
Species List in 1994. Partly through counts by volunteers such as Venette,
the population is estimated at 19,000 to 23,000.
But "looking at raw counts is very deceptive," said Alisa
Schulman-Janiger, director of the Gray Whale Census and Behavior
Project. "It's only part of the story."
The northbound migration, for example, varies widely, ranging from 748 to
3,392 gray whales since the census began in 1979.
The 748 counted this year were a record low, but that doesn't
automatically translate into a declining population, she said. Instead, it
appears that a reduced Arctic ice cover last winter created a richer,
longer feeding season up north, which in turn delayed and possibly curbed
migration.
More precise counts are possible in more confined environments. Bruce and
Corinne Monroe of Seal Beach contributed to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service tally of Laysan albatross nests with eggs at Midway Island. Hiking
about 12 miles through lush vegetation and sand dunes for 13 hours each
day, together they counted 14,000. The Monroes and other volunteers walked
in designated rows and used hand counters and binoculars to do the
tallying.
To ensure no double counts, volunteers marked each nest with fluorescent
orange spray paint.
"We were very careful where we put the small mark because the paint is
toxic and we didn't want the birds pecking at it," said Bruce Monroe, a
retired film producer.
Tavares, a biologist with the state Fish and Game Department, relies on
high technology to tally underwater populations in five lakes--Casitas,
Castaic, Pyramid, Piru and Cachuma--twice a year. After the anglers call
it a day, she launches her 18-foot boat to go "electrofishing."
Several long probes that dangle like spider legs are lowered into the
water. Tavares then shoots a battery-generated current through the
contraption while volunteers in rubber-soled shoes and gloves net the
shocked fish. As many as 800 are tallied, weighed, measured and returned
to the lake.
Such counts help establish fishing limits. The current bag limit on black
bass in Lake Castaic, for example, is two 18-inch fish. After the count
analysis showed that the population there leaned toward non-breeding
youngsters, "we tried to skew the bag limits so that not all of the
reproductive-age fish will be taken," said Dwayne Maxwell, senior
biologist with state Fish and Game.
A more primitive way to count fish--an aquatic equivalent of the National
Audubon Society's annual bird census--is the 9-year-old Great American
Fish Count, an effort each July by the Reef Environmental Education
Foundation, which trains volunteer divers and snorkelers to spot and
record wildlife in marine sanctuaries and coastal areas.
But ocean counting lacks the best feature of electrofishing: relatively
stable populations in an enclosed area, which allow for reasonable
mathematical extrapolations to arrive at total populations.
Counting ocean fish is so difficult that it is attempted by both addition
and subtraction. In the Great American Fish Count, divers observe the fish
and leave them untouched. The controversial counts that can curtail
fishing seasons are based on what fishermen take from the sea.
Robert Fletcher, president of the Sportfishing Assn. of California, which
represents owners of 175 charter boats from Santa Barbara to San Diego,
says suspect wildlife counts have fueled fears that populations of
bottom-feeding fish are dwindling.
He has challenged proposals to enlarge no-fishing boundaries around the
Channel Islands based on tallies of what fishing boats bring in, a method
that does not take into account what fishermen leave behind.
Federal officials have proposed making 26% of the islands' waters
no-fishing zones. A final decision on the zones by the Fish and Game
Commission is expected this fall.
"I'm critical at the lack of science that has forced them to make
decisions in the blind," Fletcher said. "How can you really manage a
species if you don't know what's out there?"
By comparison, few folks quibble over the most famous annual bird
tally: the Audubon Christmas Bird Count. Thousands of volunteers working
on the most recent one--the 101st--arrived at a preliminary count of
54,788,699 birds in the Americas and the Western Pacific. For the most
part, the count is used to identify trends rather than direct policy.
More is at stake with land predators, whose counts can influence hunting,
recreation and development.
Many, like grizzly bears, mountain lions and bobcats, are mobile loners
whose territories can span miles. Other than the few that are caught and
tagged or the even smaller number that are collared, individuals are hard
to tell apart, even for scientists.
"Everything is stacked against the counter," said Paul Edelman, chief of
natural resources and planning for the Santa Monica Mountains
Conservancy. "Like in chaparral, it's pretty hard to get access to most
animals because of the impenetrability of the habitat."
Feces, or scat, analysis, on the other hand, is a great way to count such
populations, said UCLA biologist Robert Wayne, who used the method in 1997
to tally 41 coyotes in a six-square-mile area in the Santa Monica
Mountains. Such analysis, which can also be done on animal hair, is less
costly and dangerous than trapping, and has been used more recently in
Glacier National Park in Montana to count grizzly bears. As of May 2000,
212 grizzlies had been identified.
Scat analysis requires a mixture of mathematics, technology and elbow
grease. Researchers select an area, then collect every piece of scat they
can find. It's taken to a laboratory, where researchers look for genetic
markers unique to each animal.
Scat is also "a secret record of activity," revealing an animal's gender,
diseases, food intake and whether it is related to other animals the
researchers identify, Wayne said.
Nonetheless, less complicated counting methods have netted thousands of
pages of studies on predators living in open space from Thousand Oaks to
Chino Hills, findings that have stopped development, preserved wild land
and changed highway configurations.
U.S. Geological Survey research assistant Lisa Lyren, for example, found
that dozens of coyotes she was studying were being killed near Chino on
the Corona Expressway, which divides their territory. Her study prompted
the agency to put up fencing along a five-mile stretch to keep coyotes off
the highway. Officials also plan to build two expressway overpasses so
wildlife can move back and forth underneath.
Her colleague, Haas, said his findings on bobcat, coyote and other
carnivore movements are being used by the Puente Hills Native Habitat
Preservation Authority to determine which parcels it should acquire in
Whittier, La Habra Heights and Hacienda Heights.
Bobcats, in particular, serve as an early warning sign of ecological ills,
which is why National Park Service wildlife ecologist Seth Riley and his
assistants repeatedly track the 22 they have fitted with radio collars to
determine changes in their reproduction and where they go to hunt and
sleep.
"Carnivores are one of the first groups you'd see problems with," Riley
said. "They are affected by urbanization and fragmentation" of undeveloped
parcels.
Riley is keeping tabs on 16 collared female bobcats to see whether the
nine living closer to neighborhoods in the Thousand Oaks area have fewer
kittens than the seven roaming in open areas.
Using a receiver to locate the beeping collars and a small pair of
binoculars, Riley scoured grassy knolls and manicured yards one recent
day. He spotted the telltale furry ears near a clump of trees.
"That's B-7," he announced, scribbling on a clipboard. Unfortunately, B-7
is one of the males, but the sighting was documented nonetheless.
"He's one of our more interesting guys," Riley explained, a bobcat that
has grown comfortable hanging out in suburbia because the well-watered
grass and plantings attract the mice and rabbits he preys on.
Some scientists fear that funding for such studies will become as scarce
as, well, bobcats.
Less money for federal agencies that count wildlife--and mandates that
require the National Park Service to spend funds on such things as
repaving roads--have animal scientists concerned about what to do next.
In 1993, then-Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt proposed a National
Biological Survey to unify volunteer, state and federal wildlife counts, a
sort of Library of Congress for biology. Congress, however, was not sold
on the need, leading to a more modest version under the biological
services division of the U.S. Geological Survey.
"There's a tendency to think of [this] science as not a good expenditure
of money," Babbitt said.
Someone in power must eventually take up the cause if wild animals are to
survive, said Bruce Monroe, the volunteer bird counter.
"I absolutely would like to see a census like the decennial one for
humans," he said. "Knowledge is power, and we're ignorant."
(BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX / INFOGRAPHIC)
Counting Them One by One
Quantifying the animal world is a never-ending quest for researchers, who
use various methods, including those shown below, to count living
creatures. Simple counts do not reveal much to researchers,
however. Instead, scientists compare data over time to identify trends.
*
Electrofishing
Electrofishing involves sending electrical impulses through the water to
stun fish. The current affects a 15- to 18-foot radius.
*
Trip cameras
Cameras outfitted with motion sensors photograph elusive creatures such as
bobcats and bears.
*
White powder
Animals leave behind tracks in white powder scattered around bait.
*
Whale spouts and fluke printsWhales can be detected by vapor plumes,
created when they exhale near the surface, and by circular, smooth areas
of water caused when they propel themselves underwater.
*
Sources: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service; Smith-Root; Tulane Museum of
Natural History; Eloise Tavares, biologist with the California Department
of Fish and Game; staff reports.
* * *
Copyright 2001 Los Angeles Times
==========
** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material
is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest
in receiving the included information for research and educational
purposes. **
------------------------------
Subject: ECOLOG-L Digest - 19 Aug 2001 to 20 Aug 2001
To: Recipients of ECOLOG-L digests <ECOLOG-L@UMDD.UMD.EDU>
Status: R
There are 4 messages totalling 369 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. blank messages in digests
2. Environmental Job Openings from EnviroNetwork
3. summary: inexpensive, user-friendly GPS receivers
4. HYDROSOFT 2001 Conference - * FINAL CALL FOR ABSTRACTS *
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:04:21 -0600
From: "David W. Inouye" <di5@umail.umd.edu>
Subject: blank messages in digests
Here is some information about what causes the blank digests some ECOLOG-L
subscribers are experiencing. And information about how those of you
posting messages can help to prevent them (by sending only plain text
messages). When the University of Maryland upgrades its listserv hardware
and software, probably next month, the problem may be solved.
David Inouye
The problem of blank Listserv digests is related to people on the list
who have their mail programs set to send text in a particular fashion.
We have notified list owners about this, but in some cases either they
have not notified their list members, or list members have failed to
take account of the warning. It might help if you get the word out by
posting the following to your list:
----------
PLEASE CHANGE YOUR MAIL TO THIS LIST TO "Plain Text Only"
Many mail programs permit a person (and in fact are often set up this
way by default) to send mail not just as plain text, but also in "HTML"
format -- the language of the Web. This makes it possible to create and
send text in various fonts, sizes, colors, bold/italic, etc. Which is
nice, but it can create problems, sometimes serious ones.
When your mailer program is set to send HTML, recipients of your mail
who use mailer programs that don't understand HTML can't read it, and if
your mailer program sends BOTH plain text *and* HTML, the message takes
up a lot of extra room when someone saves or forwards or replies to it.
But there's a more serious consequence of this. This Listserv list is
located at the University of Maryland, and the older version of Listserv
that is in use there (at least for the next several months) can react
badly to mail which is a mixture of plain text and HTML. In particular,
it affects people who have chosen to get their Listserv mail in a single
chunk per day -- called a "DIGEST". If one single person posts a
text+HTML message to the list on a given day, all the people who get the
list in DIGEST form will see none of the postings sent on that day.
Mail programs can be configured to send ONLY plain text -- either by
default or at least when sending to certain addresses (such as this
Listserv list's address). Included below are instructions for how to
set various mail programs to do this. If you use one of these programs,
please take a moment to set yours up to do this, at least when sending
to this list. For information on other programs and an excellent
write-up on this whole issue, please see
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1236/nomime.html
Thanks for your consideration.
(Note: Some mailer programs refer to HTML as "Rich Text" or "Formatted
Text" or "Styled Text", but don't be fooled -- it's all the same
problematic thing.)
TO SET THE DEFAULT FOR VARIOUS PROGRAMS TO "PLAIN TEXT ONLY":
In Windows Outlook Express:
TOOLS / OPTIONS / SEND Tab
Click the "Plain text" choice
In Mac Outlook Express 5,
EDIT / PREFERENCES / OUTLOOK EXPRESS / MESSAGE COMPOSITION /
MAIL SENDING FORMAT / PLAIN TEXT
In Netscape, see our page at
http://www.helpdesk.umd.edu/faqs/pc/apps/netscape4.5/mail/plaintext/
or do the following:
1. Choose "Preferences" from the "Edit" menu
2. Expand the "Mail and Newsgroups" item (if not already expanded)
by clicking on the + box.
3. Click on "Formatting"
3. In the "Message Formatting" section, click the "plain text editor"
button
4. In the "When sending HTML" section, click the "Ask me" button
5. Click OK.
For Eudora 4.2 (Windows):
TOOLS / OPTIONS
Scroll down CATEGORY list and click on STYLED TEXT
Click on "Send plain text only"
For Eudora 5.0 (Mac)
SPECIAL / SETTINGS
Scroll down settings list and click on STYLED TEXT
Click on "Send plain text mail only"
For AOL 6, please see
http://members.aol.com/adamkb/aol/mailfaq/#aol6html
For MSN/Hotmail:
The e-mail interface of MSN Explorer v6 automatically formats all
messages with HTML-formatting. There is no option to turn this off.
However, you can use the Hotmail web interface to prepare messages
for posting from both the HOTMAIL.COM and MSN.COM domains.
1. Use your web browser to access the Hotmail web interface,
http://www.hotmail.com
2. Enter your sign-in name in the "Sign-In Name" box.
3. If you have an MSN.COM address, click the arrow at the end of the
box displaying "hotmail.com" and select "msn.com".
4. Enter your password in the "Password" box, and click on the
"Sign-in" button.
5. Click on the "Compose" tab.
6. Make sure that the box next to "Rich Text Format" is NOT checked.
7. Prepare and send your message.
--
Ira Gold
Senior Systems Administrator
Office of Information Technology
University of Maryland, College Park
<mailto:igold@glue.umd.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:00:42 -0400
From: EnviroNetwork@NATURALIST.COM
Subject: Environmental Job Openings from EnviroNetwork
Title: Assistant Webmaster
Company: International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives (ICLEI)
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
For more information click below:
http://www.naturalist.com/eco-jobs/index.cfm?temp=job&job=4392
Title: International Director - Local Agenda 21 Campaign
Company: International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives (ICLEI)
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
For more information click below:
http://www.naturalist.com/eco-jobs/index.cfm?temp=job&job=4391
Title: Assistant Professor, Geographical Information Syst
Company: York University, Faculty of Environmental Studies
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
For more information click below:
http://www.naturalist.com/eco-jobs/index.cfm?temp=job&job=4390
Title: Watershed District Manager (5 vacancies)
Company: Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife
Location: various, Oregon
For more information click below:
http://www.naturalist.com/eco-jobs/index.cfm?temp=job&job=4389
Title: Wildlife Services Biologist
Company: Missouri Department of Conservation
Location: Jefferson City, Missouri
For more information click below:
http://www.naturalist.com/eco-jobs/index.cfm?temp=job&job=4388
Title: Urban Watershed Conservationist
Company: Missouri Department of Conservation
Location: St. Peters, Missouri
For more information click below:
http://www.naturalist.com/eco-jobs/index.cfm?temp=job&job=4387
Title: Senior Environmental Scientist
Company: BEC, Inc.
Location: Longmeadow, Massachusetts
For more information click below:
http://www.naturalist.com/eco-jobs/index.cfm?temp=job&job=4386
Title: Environmental Analyst
Company: BEC, Inc.
Location: Longmeadow, Massachusetts
For more information click below:
http://www.naturalist.com/eco-jobs/index.cfm?temp=job&job=4385
Title: Environmental Scientist(s)
Company: Bechtel Group, Inc.
Location: San Diego, California
For more information click below:
http://www.naturalist.com/eco-jobs/index.cfm?temp=job&job=4384
Title: Program Manager, Non-Timber Forest Products
Company: Rainforest Alliance
Location: Richmond, VT or New York, NY
For more information click below:
http://www.naturalist.com/eco-jobs/index.cfm?temp=job&job=4383
Title: Administrative Director
Company: Global Greengrants Fund
Location: Boulder, Colorado
For more information click below:
http://www.naturalist.com/eco-jobs/index.cfm?temp=job&job=4382
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:47:09 -1000
From: Dan Gruner <dgruner@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: summary: inexpensive, user-friendly GPS receivers
Hi,
Here is a digest of the responses I received to my query:
"I am looking for inexpensive, easy-to-use GPS receivers. I wish to
purchase a large number of them for use by 7th and 8th grade students. So,
they should also be durable."
Names are removed because many responses were written informally, and
directly to me. Each paragraph represents a discrete response, but
responses are grouped according to content. I thank all the people who
contributed their experience.
Dan
---------------------------------------------
Check out these two sites for lots of GPS information.
http://www.joe.mehaffey.com/ot-20.htm
http://joe.mehaffey.com/
--------------------------------------
Garmin GPS 12-12X:
I don't have any experience with the eTREX, but I own the Garmin GPS 12,
which was $150 2 years ago. i think the 12 is easy enough for 7th graders
to use, yet it is accurate (~5-30 m) and powerful (decent reception through
forest canopy) enough to be used for much field research in ecology.
I have had much good experience using the Garmin 12XL. I think this model i
very quick to learn, easy to use, and can get good accuracy on point
locations. It also has a nice screen that shows the saved point locations,
and a road map of the area.
----------------------------------
Garmin eTREX:
the etrex is a fine basic model (I do believe I saw it West Marine the
other day for $115-120.. if you stop by their store, they will allow you to
use it in the store to check it out), it's compact and easy to use compared
to other manufacturer's models. I haven't used it much, as I've been using
cartographic ones (eg Garmin III+ and the new 76) for the last coupla
years, but some work-mates have been using the etrex w/ good results.
I have an Etrex vista. Depending on what you want to do, it's pretty
easy to operate. If you just want to know your coordinates, you just
turn it on where it can see the sky. The compass is straighforward too,
as is recording locations. Some of the mapping functions might be
tougher to use- i haven't tried it much.
I bought an etrex last year for my boat, and it works just fine, and is
relatively easy to use. And I didn't pay anywhere close to $145 - maybe
that's the Hawaii price. I bought it at the local West Marine for about
$115 - you can check out their on-line price at www.westmarine.com.
There's no question that it's the least expensive unit sold, at least for
the boating world. And you can probably get a lower price for buying in
volume.
I just used the Garmin ETREX today (1999 model). It found
that it was easy to use. It is designed for recreational use by
non-professionals. I compared the lat and long readings to an older, more
professional GPS receiver and they agreed. The Garmin found four satellites
within 3-4 minutes the first time I used it, and within 10-20 seconds
thereafter, claiming accuracy of 15-40 feet. I did not play around with
the personal navigation features, however (eg how to get lost and then find
your way back to the campground, car, etc). There are only a few buttons to
press (up/down, enter, page (to move between functions) and on/off) and the
user manual is easy to understand. It runs on 4 AA batteries and is fairly
rugged. Carrying cases would be a good investment. $145 seems steep for a
large purchase-perhaps you can negotiate a lower per unit price for a bulk
purchase. They may even be willing to send you one to try out first.
----------------------------
Magellan 310-320:
I've used the Garmin Etrex and the Magellan 310-320 models extensively and
have found the Magellans to work much more reliably. They are also a bit
more affordable, not much though. The compass on the Garmin models works
without movement and it has an an analog altimeter. However, the Magellans
have better satelite reception in my "opinion".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Daniel S. Gruner
Department of Zoology/U Hawaii
2538 the Mall - Edmondson Hall
Honolulu, HI 96822
Phon (808)956-4722 Fax (808)956-9812
email: dgruner@hawaii.edu
http://www.hawaii.edu/gk-12/evolution/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:53:44 +0100
From: Lucy Southcott <lsouthcott@WESSEX.AC.UK>
Subject: HYDROSOFT 2001 Conference - * FINAL CALL FOR ABSTRACTS *
Dear Colleague,
Re: * Abstract 'DEADLINE' for HYDROSOFT 2002, 29 - 31 May
2002, Montreal, Canada *
As the deadline for abstracts is now here, I would like to remind
you that if you are interested in presenting a paper at the meeting, I
will need to receive the abstract of your paper (300 words) by
Friday August 24th. Please bear in mind that the deadline for final
papers is 18th December 2001, so please send your summary
without delay.
I can accept submissions by fax or Email and also via the
conference website
http://www.wessex.ac.uk/conferences/2002/hy02/. Please
remember to include the topic area of your abstract.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards
Lucy Southcott
Conference Secretariat
lsouthcott@wessex.ac.uk
P.S PLEASE IGNORE THIS REMINDER IF YOU HAVE ALREADY
SENT YOUR ABSTRACT TO US.
------------------------------
End of ECOLOG-L Digest - 19 Aug 2001 to 20 Aug 2001
***************************************************
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
Thanks to discussion with TVR, I have decided to put a link to back files of the discussion group. This months back files.
The link to complete archives is available elsewhere.
This text was originally an e-mail. It was converted using a program
RUPANTAR- a simple e-mail-to-html converter.
(c)Kolatkar Milind. kmilind@ces.iisc.ernet.in