ECOLOG-L Digest - 3 Jun 2001 to 4 Jun 2001
Subject: ECOLOG-L Digest - 3 Jun 2001 to 4 Jun 2001 To: Recipients of ECOLOG-L digests <ECOLOG-L@UMDD.UMD.EDU> Status: R There are 9 messages totalling 451 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. deadline extended for natural areas association abstracts 2. anti-research arson; I have another point (3) 3. arson or burning straw men (2) 4. 63rd Midwest Conference Final Call for Papers 5. Qs RE water depth, soil moisture and temp probes for data lo 6. Ken, RCW Classification ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:31:05 -0400 From: "Menges, Eric" <EMenges@ARCHBOLD-STATION.ORG> Subject: deadline extended for natural areas association abstracts Deadline Extended; Call for Papers and Posters: Natural Areas Association 28th Annual Conference Cape Canaveral, Florida Radisson "Resort at the Port" Convention Center, 3-6 October 2001 Deadline for Abstracts is EXTENDED to JUNE 15 30 May 2001 For abstract form, see www.natareas.org The Natural Areas Association will hold its 28th Annual Conference on October 3-6, 2001 in Cape Canaveral, Florida, at the Radisson "Resort at the Port" Convention Center. The meeting will include symposia, contributed papers, poster sessions, field trips, social events, and business meetings. The theme of the meeting, 2001: A Spatial Odyssey Searching for a Natural Balance will provide an examination of how conservation, technology, and society can better serve one another. Abstracts that address this theme are especially encouraged, but submissions may be from any area of natural areas management, ecology, conservation, policy or related areas. We also welcome presentations of projects that are interdisciplinary, that consider the need to communicate with broad audiences, or that explore ways of teaching ecology at any level. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:20:44 -0400 From: "Kelly L. Decker" <kdecker@ZOO.UVM.EDU> Subject: Re: anti-research arson; I have another point First of all, let me state that this arson was an act of violence, and I am fundamentally against it. But I have a point to make that I don't think has been made yet. Right now, environmental causes are extremely sympathetic to the general pub ic. We actually may have a chance to raise public awareness to an extent that it was not possible in the Clinton administration because everyone assumed the environment would be fine under Clinton-Gore. No one is taking the environme t for granted under Bush-Cheney. Terrorist acts have been shown to remove public sympathy for the cause. Examples: For all the social good that the Black Panthers did, what are they remembered for? Many pro-lifers were very turned off when clinics that perfo med abortions were bombed. It doesn't matter how righteous the cause, terrorist cts have negative effects on public opinion. In our society, money and VOTES cou t. So. These people are really hurting their own cause, and are risking the cur ent public interest in environmental issues that frankly has been a long time coming. To them I say " Knock it off. Nonviolent acts rule if you want to get somewh re positive, Violence only gets scorn for you and your issues." ********************************************************************** Kelly Decker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 02:09:32 EDT From: Jacob Landmesser <Jakobfree@AOL.COM> Subject: arson or burning straw men << I would like to know just what legal methods these folks have tried >> are we now prepared to argue the difference between legal and moral? there is definitely a difference between actions within the realms of legality and morality. and often there is some time before moral issues are considered in the realm of legality and vice versa. is it at any point a moral imperative to act out in violence against an action that is completely legal? a few extreme examples perhaps: the slaughter of millions in germany (jews, gypsies, homosexuals, mentally and physically disabled, communists, etc) was done legally and was it an act of terrorism to bomb berlin or to break open the gates of birkenau?; shall we call john brown, nat turner, or the number of individuals involved in the underground railroad terrorists for their action against slaveowners in america?; the attampted genocide of indigenous peoples worldwide that has been sanctioned by the world powers in the name o economic conquest and would we call crazy horse, nelson mandela, or emiliano zapata terrorists? i am sure the first response to this will be something t the tune of 'but what does this have to with anti-science arson?' well all of these actions were perpetrated on 'people' that were considered sub-human or animal if you will, and all of these actions were deemed in the best interest of society by those in control. we can argue from atop the ivory tower of scientific inquiry that legal and appropriate activism might take some time and a lot of effort (especially when DDT is still used in a number of countries around the world, i believe supplied by american companies), bu what is the cost of time? when we are dealing with general issues of right and wrong, how much wrong can be permitted in the name of social and political expediency? i will not argue for the beliefs of groups like PETA, ELF, ALF, or Earth First!, but i will suggest that it is possible that drastic measures are instrumental in the process of social change, and that one of these drastic measures may be violence. jacob landmesser Idaho State University "All voting is a sort of gaming, like checkers, or backgammon, a playing wit right and wrong; its obligation never exceeds that of expediency. Even voting for the right thing is doing nothing for it. a wise man will not leave the right to the mercy of chance, nor wish it to prevail through the power of the majority." Henry David Thoreau ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:19:58 -0400 From: Brad Robbins <robbins@MOTE.ORG> Subject: Re: arson or burning straw men Quoted from a recent thread: "...[I]...suggest that...drastic measures are instrumental...[to] social change, and that one of these...may be violence." All who have responded to this thread by advocating violence need to sit back and make sure that you understand what you are actually supporting. If I accept the premise that violence is a justifiable means to an end, at what point can the violence no longer be justified? What if I were to decide that research project X was threatening and I was unable to convince the "powers that be" that this research was dangerous. From what I'm reading, several on this list think its ok for me to destroy the project, in the name of social change. So Dr. Strangelove sorts through the rubble and resurrects his research. Now I destroy his laboratory. Again being persistent, he starts over at a new facility. Do I have the right to destroy him? Or would that be beyond justification? Maybe instead of him personally, I destroy his family and friends. Again can that be justified? Let's move beyond research that some perceive as Frankensteinian. New scenario: I conduct seagrass research. Local fishermen have come to believe that my research will negatively affect their livelihoods. Following your logic they would be in their rights to burn my boat and rip out my experimental plots. If I continue, do they have the right then to burn the laboratory where I work? If I persist could you justify their actions if they were to physically attack me? There is no legal justification for this so how is it justified, morally? I don't think so. Recognize that you cannot compare terrorism to war; they are two different things no matter what your ideology. You also cannot compare the treatment of animals to the treatment of humans. Call me anthrocentric but I will strongly argue that a human life is more precious than a non-human life. We affect change through non-violent protest and by presenting well thought out and well documented arguments. Violence begets violence. In the above scenario will I be forced to arm myself or hire bodyguards in order to continue my research? Or do you believe that I should stop because someone objects. If the latter is true then might I suggest that some would find your research objectionable and thus maybe you should stop. Brad Robbins, Ph.D. Disclaimer: Mention of trade names or terroristic actions should not be construed as support for these products or actions. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:51:40 -0700 From: Allan Shanfield <anshanfield@UCDAVIS.EDU> Subject: Re: anti-research arson; I have another point Whenever I see violence on tv or print from a "cause", I wonder if this isn't a setup to make the "cause" look dangerous and stupid. Since Czarist Russia the use of agent provocateurs has been an effective means to quell dissent. WHO were those morons dresssed in black as "Anarchists" during the Quebec riots. Anyone who has read Kropotkin - including his plea for a more humane and progressive teaching of Geograpy - knows that violence wasn't in his equation. So whenever you see a protest turn ugly and diminish the cause to a bunch of rabid bombthrowers, etc., consider this notion. Violence makes great fodder for 10 second bytes on tv news - always dismissing dissenters as "crazies". Are dissenters so stupid as to foment violence and arson? Who knows. Respectfully, Allan Shanfield ________________________ Grad. Group in Geograpy Forest Ecologist UC Davis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:18:21 -0500 From: Martin Konrad <Martin.Konrad@DNR.STATE.IA.US> Subject: 63rd Midwest Conference Final Call for Papers YOU ARE INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE=20 63rd MIDWEST FISH AND WILDLIFE CONFERENCE MARIOTT HOTEL, DES MOINES, IOWA DECEMBER 9 - 12, 2001 This is the FINAL CALL FOR CONTRIBUTED PAPERS AND POSTERS. In continuation= of the conference's strong tradition of high-quality professional = presentations, the conference program committee invites submissions of = papers and posters based on research and management experiences relevant = to the region. Abstracts of 200 words or fewer must be submitted electronically as = indicated on the Abstract Submission Form at http://www.state.ia.us/midwest= 2001. Do not send printed abstracts or attached e-mail files. Abstracts = must be received by July 15. You will be notified immediately when your = electronic abstract is received. Authors will be notified by Aug. 15 = regarding acceptance of their paper or poster. Authors of accepted = abstracts will receive additional instructions. The conference program = committee may ask that some papers submitted for oral presentation instead = be given as poster and vice versa. Also, the committee may ask that some = papers submitted for general sessions be included in symposia and vice = versa. ELECTRONIC SUBMISSION OF THE ABSTRACT Please follow the instructions on the website Abstract Submission Form, = paying special attention to the following: 1) Presenter information - Provide complete name, address, phone and FAX = numbers, and e-mail address for presenting author. 2) Abstract title - Summarize your presentation in 15 words or fewer. 3) Abstract - Please use the guidelines above to prepare your abstract of = 200 words or fewer. The abstracts will be organized into a booklet that = will be given to conference participants. POSTER PREPARATION We encourage submission of contributions in poster format. Posters are an = increasingly popular method for communicating project results at large = meetings. Advantages of posters include providing opportunities to confer = with conference participants involved in similar work, to convey greater = detail than is possible in oral presentations and to meet new people in = the profession. There will be special poster sessions at the conference = for authors to be present to explain their work. As noted above, authors = who wish to make poster presentations must submit abstracts in the = standard electronic format. The posters must be prepared to fit a 4 x 8 = foot format. For further information on symposia, general sessions and poster sessions, = please contact the following: Bruce Menzel=20 General Program Committee Chair Iowa State University=09 Dept. of Animal Ecology 124 Sciences II=20 Ames, IA 50011 515-294-7419 bmenzel@iastate.edu=20 Don Bonneau=20 Fisheries Program Chair Iowa DNR 502 E. 9th St. Des Moines, IA 50319 515-281-8660 don.bonneau@dnr.state.ia.us=20 Rolf Koford Wildlife Program Chair Iowa State University Dept. of Animal Ecology 124 Science II Ames, IA 50011 515-294-3057 rkoford@iastate.edu=20 Larry Mitzner Poster Sessions Chair Iowa DNR Red Haw State Park RR1, Box 209 Chariton, IA 50049 641-774-2958 larry.mitzner@dnr.state.ia.us ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:43:14 -0500 From: Bobby D Keeland <bob_keeland@USGS.GOV> Subject: Re: Qs RE water depth, soil moisture and temp probes for data lo You can build your own water level sensors that can be connected to a Campbell Data Logger (I did this for my dissertation). Check out Wetland Ecology and Management 5:121-129 1997 for an article on how to build the sensor for about $60 each (compared to $500-$600 each for commercial sensors). Someone from the US Forest Service Research Office in Pineville, LA was working on an improved sensor. You might try to check that out also. Sorry, but I don't have the number or address. Bob Keeland Forest Ecologist USGS, National Wetlands Research Center John.Petersen@O BERLIN.EDU To: ECOLOG-L@UMDD.UMD.EDU cc: 05/31/01 01:06 Subject: Qs RE water depth, s il moisture and PM temp probes for data lo Hi: I am looking for some advice on probes for monitoring a number of environmental variables in soil and water with a Campbell CR10 data logger. I'm looking for economical and Campbell compatable probes for the following: 1. Measuring water depth in a pond, a cistern and a well (all fresh water systems). Any ideas on good suppliers and pros and cons of resistance tape, pressure sensors and floats would be appreciated. 2. Soil temperature. I want to monitor how the dynamics soil temperature in a landscape change over time as a result of ecosystem maturation (we have a lawn that is planted with dwarf fruit trees). I was thinking I might install a short horizontal transect of temperature probes and also one or two vertical profiles. I'm looking for recommendations on how deep probes in the horizontal transect should be placed (I'm thinking shallow -- 10cm or so), and also, how deep and how many probes to plant in the vertical profiles. I was tentatively thinking of using thermocouple wire with tip dipped in silicone and heat shrunk for protection (cheaper than buying lots of thermisters). Has anyone had experience with thermocouples burried underground? Do they last? Also, how do they fair under water? 3. I would like to also get some measures of soil moisture and/or water potential. As I say, I am interested in documenting changes as the ecosystem develops. Any thoughts on whether soil water potential or volumentric water content are preferable as indices of change? Advice on particular types of sensors and suppliers? Thanks, John E. Petersen, Assistant Professor Oberlin College, Lewis Center for Environmental Studies 122 Elm St., Oberlin OH 44074, Phone: (440) 775-6692, FAX: 775-8946 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:21:47 -0400 From: "Kelly L. Decker" <kdecker@ZOO.UVM.EDU> Subject: Re: anti-research arson; I have another point Good point. It's hard to know exactly where this is coming from. I think the govt. is capable of this kind of deception and violence, but so are young idealists. Kelly Quoting Allan Shanfield <anshanfield@ucdavis.edu>: > Whenever I see violence on tv or print from a "cause", I wonder if this > isn't a setup to make the "cause" look dangerous and stupid. Since > Czarist > Russia the use of agent provocateurs has been an effective means to > quell > dissent. WHO were those morons dresssed in black as "Anarchists" during > the Quebec riots. Anyone who has read Kropotkin - including his plea fo > a > more humane and progressive teaching of Geograpy - knows that violence > wasn't in his equation. > > So whenever you see a protest turn ugly and diminish the cause to a > bunch > of rabid bombthrowers, etc., consider this notion. Violence makes great > fodder for 10 second bytes on tv news - always dismissing dissenters as > "crazies". Are dissenters so stupid as to foment violence and arson? Wh > knows. > > Respectfully, > > Allan Shanfield > ________________________ > Grad. Group in Geograpy > Forest Ecologist > UC Davis > > ********************************************************************** Kelly Decker Postdoctoral Fellow School of Natural Resources University of Vermont Burlington, VT 05401 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:52:51 -0400 From: Doug Shipley <dshipley@ARIS.SFRC.UFL.EDU> Subject: Ken, RCW Classification I am 'blindly' sending this email in search for Ken Convery. This regards an email he sent out (@ March 28, 2001) asking about classification techniques for the red cockaded woodpecker. If possible, please let me know if this is the correct address to ask further questions (I am doing a similar study). Thanks Doug Shipley dshipley@aris.sfrc.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Subject: ECOLOG-L Digest - 1 Jun 2001 to 2 Jun 2001 To: Recipients of ECOLOG-L digests <ECOLOG-L@UMDD.UMD.EDU> Status: R There are 5 messages totalling 462 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Anti- Research Arson (2) 2. anti-research arson 3. empty digest messages- temporary work-around 4. Caribou! Support the Gwich'in Nation! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 07:31:31 -0400 From: Jodi Witte <jwitte@ANIMALHELP.COM> Subject: Re: Anti- Research Arson You have all truly brought up excellent arguments which have certainly spark d my interest and thought. My reply here won't be quite as philosophical as others, but bear with me. I love nature, and animals more than most. I am still pursuing that ever elu ive BS degree which seems further and further away as I get older, but someday. I want nothing but the best for our environment and my family. Where does the balance lie? I am personally against these acts of terrorism, and would not in any way knowingly support an organization that participates in them. I do not belie e it brings credibility to their stand. BUT, that being said..there is no dou t in my mind, that we would not have come so far in changing laws and policy without some of this. It is only from having ideas at both extreme ends of he issue that we reach a balance somewhere in the middle. In both environmenta issues or animal welfare. For instance, ALF and PETA have both been behind cts of terrorism to animal research facilities. I for one, value the fact that y children can receive the best health care in the world. With this comes the need for research. I do not believe all research should be abolished but, w th the extremists, laws have been passed to help ensure more humane treatment f the animals and also for corporations to find alternate means when it is possible. This is definitely good for all of us. I think though, in the long run, the ONLY way things are going to really cha ge is not because of these organizations actions, but education of the next generation. My children, ages 3,8,& 9, would "freak out" if I threw an empt soda can in the garbage. They have grown up with recycling. It is a part of everyday life and they believe there is no other alternative. I was 17 befo e my community started offering recycling of soda cans and newspaper. It was uch harder for me to break my old habits, then it was for them to just accept. Raise our next generation to be fully aware of the results of their actions and you will see major changes in how the environment is treated and cared for. With that next generation will come a more enlightened government, new laws etc. Change is slow, but it changes non-the-less. There are more examples o this in history that one can count. This new generation, with their understanding and care of the earth, will tip those balances so that the mi dle begins to lie more to one side then it does now. Jodi Witte ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:32:09 -0400 From: "David M. Bryant" <dmbryant@CISUNIX.UNH.EDU> Subject: Re: anti-research arson Jamie I'm sure that ELF feels frustrated that their voice is not being heard by the mainstream, but their actions give them a voice that they will not expect nor appreciate. Violence begets violence, not understanding nor education. ELF galvanizes conservatives not conservationists. This destruction of property creates enemies not alliances. Reactionism is a reflex, i.e. a cordal not cortical response, the solutions to complex problems are contemplation, consideration and cooperation, not violence, vilification or vigilanties. It's ironic that your arguments for ELF's actions are the same used by Timothy McVie and the Michgan militia, as well as those that blew up USFS offices in Nevada several years ago. I will defend anyone's right to express thier opinion in a peacefull manner, when respectfull of other's rights and opinions. My guess is that ELF members are doing more to satisfying thier own moral gratification with their actions than advancing the cause of the environment. Furthermore, it seems obvious from the majority of responses on this thread that ELF is making no friends among the scientific and thinking community of conservationists. To determine how prodcutive terrorism is, look into the history of those conflicts which utilize terrorism, most of them have been going on for centuries and have yet to be resolved. David M. Bryant dmbryant@cisunix.unh.edu Dept. of Natural Resources 603-862-4433 215 James Hall University of New Hampshire Durham, NH 03824 "Not all that is counted counts and not all that counts can be counted" A. Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:31:50 -0700 From: Wayne Tyson <landrest@UTM.NET> Subject: Re: Anti- Research Arson At 07:31 AM 6/2/2001 -0400, Jodi Witte wrote: "Where does the balance lie?" Honorable Jodi and Forum: In asking questions rather than providing answers--in a word, maturity. The crucial distinction between "activism" and terrorism is that the former stands firm on principle, the latter on ego. Terrorists are mere cowardly bullies, driven to violence by fear--they are lazy-minded, closed-minded, self-righteous, egotistical, seeking immediate gratification at any cost, infantile, retarded. The mature man or woman seeks true reconciliation, not mere compromise--the immature, like all "true believers" merely strike out. They are "conservative" minded in that they subscribe to dogma rather than do the very hard work of thinking their own thoughts. ALF, PETA, McVey, governments, universities, and all centers of power fail to see that power itself is corrupt. QUESTION authority--especially your own, beginning with your own. Stand firm, but not rigid. Subject your own thinking to the same discipline you expect of others. This is rare, but it is not impossible. Ever consider that if "things" are really screwed up that the best alternative has yet to be tried? It is a pleasure to see the open mind opening further, Jodi. The essence of true education, of refinement of mind in action. Confronting our ignorance, not acting upon it, is the entree thereto, eh? Best, WT At 07:31 AM 6/2/2001 -0400, Jodi Witte wrote: >I am personally against these acts of terrorism, and would not in any wa > knowingly support an organization that participates in them. I do not > believe > it brings credibility to their stand. BUT, that being said..there is n > doubt > in my mind, that we would not have come so far in changing laws and po icy > without some of this. It is only from having ideas at both extreme end > of the > issue that we reach a balance somewhere in the middle. In both environ ental > issues or animal welfare. For instance, ALF and PETA have both been > behind acts > of terrorism to animal research facilities. I for one, value the fact > that my > children can receive the best health care in the world. With this come the > need for research. I do not believe all research should be abolished > but, with > the extremists, laws have been passed to help ensure more humane > treatment of > the animals and also for corporations to find alternate means when it s > possible. This is definitely good for all of us. >I think though, in the long run, the ONLY way things are going to really >change > is not because of these organizations actions, but education of the ne t > generation. My children, ages 3,8,& 9, would "freak out" if I threw an empty > soda can in the garbage. They have grown up with recycling. It is a pa t of > everyday life and they believe there is no other alternative. I was 17 > before > my community started offering recycling of soda cans and newspaper. It > was much > harder for me to break my old habits, then it was for them to just acc pt. > Raise our next generation to be fully aware of the results of their > actions and > you will see major changes in how the environment is treated and cared for. > With that next generation will come a more enlightened government, new laws, > etc. Change is slow, but it changes non-the-less. There are more examp es of > this in history that one can count. This new generation, with their > understanding and care of the earth, will tip those balances so that t e > middle > begins to lie more to one >side then it does now. > >Jodi Witte ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 13:10:25 -0500 From: Phil Fay <fay@KSU.EDU> Subject: empty digest messages- temporary work-around I've found that I can see the contents of the 'blank' digest messages (in the Netscape mail program anyway) by looking at the 'Page Source'- found under the 'View' menu. A stop-gap at least until the problem gets sorted out. =============================== Philip A. Fay Ph.D. Research Assistant Professor Division of Biology Kansas State University Manhattan, KS 66506-4901 USA 785-532-7627 785-532-6653 (fax) Rainfall Manipulation Project Homepage: http://www.konza.ksu.edu/ramps/homepage/ =============================== -- ================== Phil Fay 306 Orchard Circle Manhattan, KS 66502 USA 785-539-2863 ================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:14:47 -0500 From: Ian Thomas <caribou_maps@MAPTRICKS.COM> Subject: Caribou! Support the Gwich'in Nation! *********************************************************************** **Urgent Action Alert ** Urgent Action Alert ** Urgent Action Alert *** *********************************************************************** SUPPORT THE GWICH'IN NATIVE PEOPLE & DEFEND THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS! NO OIL DRILLING IN THE ARCTIC NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE! Dear friends, Please distribute this plea for support far and wide! 1) OPEN INVITATION TO ALL FRIENDS TO ATTEND THE GWICH'IN NATION GATHERING 2) GLOBAL WARMING & CLIMATE CHANGE IS THE BIGGEST THREAT TO THE ARCTIC ENVIRONMENT 3) SIGN THE STATEMENT OF SUPPORT FOR THE GWICH'IN PEOPLE *********************************************************************** **Urgent Action Alert ** Urgent Action Alert ** Urgent Action Alert *** *********************************************************************** Young People of the Gwich'in Nation Call a Gathering in Arctic Village, Alaska June 21-25, 2001 The Gwich'in Indians of northeast Alaska and northwest Canada met for the first time in hundreds of years back in June of 1988. The Chiefs, the Elders, and tribal members met with one goal in mind. They united in solidarity and in one voice to protect the Porcupine River Caribou Herd calving area in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge from oil development and exploration. Since then they have met every other year to reaffirm their commitment to permanent protection of their ancient culture. Since the first gathering, the Gwich'in Steering Committee has carried out all of the Elders and Chiefs directions and we did very well on keeping the oil companies at bay. Now, because of the Bush administration s threat to our very being we must come together again to strategize and build our resistance and to take further directions from our Elders. The young people of the Gwich'in Nation called a meeting in Arctic Village, Alaska June 21st to 25th to discuss in length and depth the current threat that is heating up in Congress. We are in a state of urgency. Because of the impact oil drilling will have on the future of our young generation it is imperative that we gather at this time to build our strength and pride as a people and as a community. We must address these important issues now. The first day will be dedicated to the honor of the Episcopal Church because of their undying support of the Gwich in. The remainder of the agenda will be decided by the Gwich'in Chiefs, the Arctic Village Council, the Gwich'in Steering Committee, and the chosen young people with guidance of Evon Peter, Chief of Arctic Village. Prayers of thanks will be given by respected community leader, Trimble Gilbert of Arctic Village, our Episcopal Minister and Elder. All Nations and Friends of the Gwich in are welcome. All Elders, all leaders, all young people and everyone who wants to come will be welcome as well as the PRESS. There will absolutely be NO drugs or alcohol permitted at our gathering. This will be a non-violent demonstration. We expect a huge turnout. Out of respect for the community of Arctic Village we would like you to register early and be counted. We will have limited housing and food. We ask you to help by coming well equipped with tent and portable camping gear. Please be prepared for the most isolated Indian community in our time and era. The cold weather is also very unpredictable so be prepared with warm boots and hats. We ask you to please bring snacks, and small cash. This is our gathering and we want you to feel welcome and become educated on our culture. Shalak Naii (All my relations) We will see you there!! For more information contact: Julie Hollandsworth 907-587-6269 or Sarah James 907-587-5315 fax 907-587-5128 or email sarahjamesav@hotmail.com or the Gwich'in Steering Committee 127 1st Avenue Fairbanks, AK 99701 Phone 907-458-8264 Fax 907-458-8265 or email gwichin1@alaska.net or gwichin2@alaska.net *********************************************************************** **Urgent Action Alert ** Urgent Action Alert ** Urgent Action Alert *** *********************************************************************** GLOBAL WARMING AND CLIMATE CHANGE IS THE BIGGEST THREAT TO THE ARCTIC ENVIRONMENT >From the Anchorage Daily News & Associated Press http://www.adn.com/metro/story/0,2633,270351,00.html (Published May 29, 2001) "Bad Year for the Porcupine Caribou Herd: Cows must calve soon in order for the herd to safely cross the river. Time is running out for the Porcupine caribou herd, according to the conservation officer for the Vuntut Gwitchin First Nation. Darius Kassi said the caribou are late again this year getting to their calving grounds on Alaska's coastal plain. If the weather doesn't warm and they don't get moving, the caribou could get caught in the same circumstances they did last year, when the death rate among calves almost doubled in the first month to an estimated 15,000 caribou. The approximately 15,000 calves that died in the first month last year represented a mortality rate of 44 percent. The herd when last counted in 1998 numbered about 129,000. It recently was still south of the Porcupine River, which was not yet safe for crossing, Kassi said. If the cows get delayed too long, they won't make it to the calving grounds before giving birth. That would mean another catastrophic year for calf survival, Kassi said. "If the cows drop their calves now, the wolves, wolverines, the foxes and bears are just going to have a field day with the young ones," Kassi said. In addition to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge providing less susceptibility to predators, the coastal plain also provides the cows with much needed nutrients that are not available in the forage south of the tree line. Calves born south of the Porcupine are often not able to cross the river safely and are abandoned by the cows that continue to migrate, even if it's after they've calved, he said. "I witnessed it last year," Kassi said. "Very few (calves) were crossing the Porcupine because it was too dangerous, too wide, too deep, and the current was too fast....I drove up and down the river, and I saw calves just sitting there, sometimes two by themselves. It looks like it is going to be another bad year." If the herd can get across the river and close to the grounds before calving, to the foothills inside the Vuntut and Ivvavik national parks, chances for calf survival increase greatly, he said. The herd has been known to move from as far south as the Dempster Highway area to the coastal plain in 10 days. Don Russell of the Canadian Wildlife Service said there is still time for the herd to move. In recent years, June 2 has represented the peak calving time. Last year it wasn't until June 7. Old Crow residents who recently watched the ice begin flowing saw a cow caught on an ice floe drifting down river. "She was struggling to make it to shore, but she did not make it," Kassi said. As the cow slipped into the river, she was covered by drifting ice. "People had to turn their heads when they saw that cow fall into the river," he said. *********************************************************************** **Urgent Action Alert ** Urgent Action Alert ** Urgent Action Alert *** *********************************************************************** STATEMENT OF SUPPORT FOR THE GWICH'IN PEOPLE NO OIL DRILLING IN THE ARCTIC NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE Dear friends, Please distribute this far and wide! The Indigenous Environmental Network, the International Indian Treaty Council and Greenaction issue this call to action to stop the plan to drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Oil drilling in this beautiful area would violate the human rights of the Gwich'in Native Peoples, would pollute the pristine wilderness of the Arctic Refuge, and would threaten the survival of the porcupine caribou and the Gwich'in. We ask everybody from all walks of life to sign the Statement of Support (below) for the Gwich'in in their fight against the proposed oil drilling. Please send your endorsement of this letter by email to supportgwichin@greenaction.org *********************************************************************** **Urgent Action Alert ** Urgent Action Alert ** Urgent Action Alert *** *********************************************************************** STATEMENT OF SUPPORT FOR THE GWICH'IN PEOPLE NO OIL DRILLING IN THE ARCTIC NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE We the undersigned declare our support for the Gwich'in People in opposition to the proposal to drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. We pledge to help stop the proposed oil drilling which would pollute the Arctic Refuge, desecrate sacred land, and threaten the survival of the porcupine caribou herd and the Gwich'in People. For tens of thousands of years the Gwich'in - the Caribou People - have lived in harmony with the caribou. The plan to drill for oil in the Arctic Refuge is an unacceptable violation of the human rights of the Gwich'in. The oil companies and the Bush Administration have no right to destroy the way of life, culture, environment and economic subsistence of the Gwich'in People. We raise our voices in protest as President Bush, Vice-President Cheney and their oil company friends attempt to promote this oil drilling plan. We stand united with the Gwich'in in defense of human rights, wildlife, and the beautiful wilderness in the Arctic Refuge. Name email 1) Ian Thomas ian_thomas@maptricks.com http://www.peer.org/maps.html 2) 3) 4) 5) 6) 7) 8) 9) 10) 11) 12) 13) 14) 15) 16) 17) 18) 19) 20) 21) 22) 23) 24) 25) Please send endorsed email back to supportgwichin@greenaction.org Many, many thanks! ------------------------------ Subject: ECOLOG-L Digest - 2 Jun 2001 to 3 Jun 2001 To: Recipients of ECOLOG-L digests <ECOLOG-L@UMDD.UMD.EDU> Status: R There are 11 messages totalling 559 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. anti-research arson--NASA and the ultimate GMO arrogance? (2) 2. PhD Position, Ecological Modelling, Germany 3. service-learning conference 4. a solution to the problem with reading ECOLOG-L digests 5. Workshops: Practical Research & Action for Development 6. GPS for closed canopies? 7. Anti- Research Arson 8. anti-research arson 9. Job Sought with Herons, Egrets or Sea Birds 10. Teaching Ecology in High School ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 20:43:38 -0700 From: Wayne Tyson <landrest@UTM.NET> Subject: Re: anti-research arson--NASA and the ultimate GMO arrogance? Ecolog-L: Look at this page and weep. Earlier in the space "program," there was concern about extra-terrestrial contamination. Now it appears that "we" are planning intentionally to propagate terrestrial organisms, "engineered," no less, on other celestial bodies. Has anybody asked Australians (lately) about the "benefits" of cactus or jackrabbits or Guamanians about the brown tree-snake? If it walks like an alien and talks like an alien . . . "We has met the alien--and he is us." (Apologies to the late Walt Kelly) http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/roadmap/goals/g10_life_space.html Best (of the worst?) WT "The suspension of judgment is the highest exercise in intellectual discipline." --Raymond M. Gilmore ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 22:06:56 -0500 From: "David W. Inouye" <di5@umail.umd.edu> Subject: PhD Position, Ecological Modelling, Germany JUSTUS - LIEBIG - UNIVERSITY GIESSEN PhD position A PhD position is available immediately at the Department of Agricultural and Environmental Science of the Justus-Liebig-University Giessen, Germany within the subproject Modelling and Geostatistics of the interdisciplinary collaborative project BIOPLEX (Biodiversity and Spatial Complexity in Agricultural Landscapes under Global Cange). The salary will follow the German civil service level BATIIa/2 (DEM 30.000-40.000). The overall aim of BIOPLEX is the investigation of the connections between biodiversity and spatial complexity in agricultural landscapes. Modelling plays a central role in the BIOPLEX project. Models analyzing the spatial distribution of functional groups depending on temporally variable land use (arable land, meadow, fallow land) are already being developed. In order to improve the comprehension of the mechanisms underlying the spatiotemporal distribution and dispersal of the functional groups, the PhD student will develop spatially explicit, individual-based simulation models for one or several species. For further information contact Dr. Kerstin Wiegand, Tel.: +49 641 99 37545, Fax: +49 641 99 37549, E-Mail: Kerstin.Wiegand@agrar.uni-giessen.de Position requirements: Above-average master=92s degree (or German diploma) in biology, agricultural sciences, physics, or a related field; good programming skills in e.g., C++, Turbo Pascal, Delphi; experience in modelling; able to collaborate interdisciplinary; experience with geographical information systems and satellite imagery are a plus To apply, send cover letter and CV, preferably until June 30st 2001, to Professor Dr. Wolfgang K=F6hler, Biometry and Population Genetics, IFZ, Justus-Liebig-University, Heinrich-Buff-Ring 26-32, D-35392 Giessen homepage: http://www.uni-giessen.de/biometrie/ see also http://www.uni-giessen.de/bioplex/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 19:08:34 -0500 From: fbio2233 <mgreene@SELU.EDU> Subject: service-learning conference Greetings to all. For those of my service-learning colleagues who also happ n to be ecologists, (or vice versa) I'd like to inform you of an innovative conference which discusses and promotes this intriguing form of pedagogy. Sorry for the short time frame, I only just got this most recent posting myself. Sincerely yours, Michael Greene ********************** > It's not too late to register for the National Gathering 2001, Thur day, > June 21 - Sunday, June 24, at Butler University , Indianapolis, IN, in > collaboration with: Indiana University-Purdue University-Indianapol s > (IUPUI) and Indiana Campus Compact. Registration forms and informat on can be found online at http://www.selu.edu/orgs/ic/ng2001.htm > > The National Gathering differs from the usual sort of national acad mic > meeting: no paper presentations, no symposia, no panel presentation of > campus programs-although space is provided for poster displays of c mpus / > community programs. The unique atmosphere of the National Gathering is personified by Learning > Circles - prolonged discussion in which individuals gather to engag in profound > conversations around a specific topic or issue in service-learning. The > National Gathering's multi-day learning circles require participant to > commit to one central discussion: all participants attend all sched led > sessions of the learning circle chosen, from Thursday evening throu h > Saturday afternoon. Participants thus leave the Gathering with a mu h > richer understanding of their chosen topic than is possible in the sual > academic conference format. > > Learning Circle Topics > These circles are the core events of the National Gathering. They a e > sustained discussions that begin Thursday evening and continue thro gh > Saturday morning. For a description of each topic, see the National > Gathering Website at http://www.selu.edu/orgs/ic/ng2001.htm > 1. Institutions of Higher Education as Agents of Social > Change > 2. Service Learning beyond the Humanities and So ial > Sciences > 3. High Tech / High Touch > 4. Reflection > 5. Participatory Action Research > 6. Transformative Pedagogy > 7. Ethical Issues > 8. Spirituality > 9. Vocation > 10. Diversity and Power > 11. Campus Community Partnerships > 12. Being In, Of and with Community > > The Invisible College is a national organization of service-learnin > practitioners - university faculty and staff, community partners, a d > students - working toward the common goal of increasing and improvi g the > practice of service-learning across the United States. For more in > formation, please visit our website at www.selu.edu/orgs/ic/index.h m ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 22:10:16 -0500 From: "David W. Inouye" <di5@umail.umd.edu> Subject: a solution to the problem with reading ECOLOG-L digests Bob Peet reports a solution for those of you having trouble reading the daily digests of ECOLOG-L messages: If I open the digest in a text editor rather than an email client, and then delete the header line that reads: Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" then the digest works perfectly. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:29:50 EDT From: GroundWork Inc <GroundWorkInc@AOL.COM> Subject: Workshops: Practical Research & Action for Development GroundWork invites you to our upcoming workshops in October: "Integrated Knowledge for Development" in Kinvara, Ireland, and "Participatory Research & Action for Environmental Sustainability" in Cape Cod, Massachusetts. Pleas write to each specified email address for further details (including the co t) and an application form. ************************************************ Two New GroundWork Workshops: Practical Research and Action For Development 1. Integrated Knowledge for Development: Kinvara, Ireland October 6-13, 200 Many people are wary of the current rhetoric about participation, the time i takes, the 'emphasis on process over content', the 'theological & righteousness,' etc. This workshop is aimed at overworked people who believ in consultation but who need valid usable information that 1) makes sense with n the context of their organizational operations; and 2) can be obtained before the end of the millennium. This is a workshop for managers, sector specialists and researchers working n international development or donor organizations who want to learn more abo t how to do, and how to commission research that integrates *participatory research and conventional research *qualitative and quantitative approaches *local needs and national policy and planning Sectors: education, health and HIV/AIDS, gender, microfinance and agricultu e We take you from the 'basics' of participatory, qualitative and quantitative research to advanced applications, processes, issues and theory as they app y to real development issues. No previous experience is necessary. What you l arn will be useful for project design, appraisal, implementation, monitoring an evaluation. We also show you how to apply what you have learned to address issues that arise internally in your own organization. Participants work from manuals and workbooks specially tailored to their own interests, and participate in fieldwork with enthusiastic local communities One of the most popular aspects of this workshop is that each participant i helped to design his or her own future project, beginning to end. This seven-day course is held in a rural seaside village in Ireland. Senior experts in participatory research from GroundWork will facilitate it: Eilee Kane and Mary O'Reilly de Br佖, both anthropologists, and authors of n innovative new book, Doing Your Own Research (Boyars, London, 2001) Guest experts will lead the sectoral field events. For an application form and further details on this course, please write to: workshop@groundworkers.org 2. Participatory Research and Action for Environmental Sustainability: Cape od, Massachusetts: October 21-26, 2001 This course offers a cross-sectoral approach to policy and planning for environmental sustainability through community participation, education, health, microfinance and gender integration. Senior experts in social ecolo y and participatory research from GroundWork will facilitate the course: Christina Rawley, Eileen Kane, and Mary O'Reilly de Brun, with guest facult and facilitators from around the world. This intensive residential worksho will offer practical experience in program design from beginning to end, including fieldwork in local communities. Drawing on internationally known institutions and environmental groups in the community, evening sessions wi l provide opportunities for stimulating exchange of ideas with interesting gu sts from the local environment community and international visitors. For an application form and further details on this course, please write to environment@groundworkers.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 09:22:26 -0300 From: Voltolini <jcvoltol@INFOCAD.COM.BR> Subject: GPS for closed canopies? Dear friends, I am planning to buy a GPS and my problem is that I am working in valleys with very closed canopies in the Brazilian rainforests. So, I would like to receive suggestions about GPS models able to work in this situation. Thanks for any help !! Voltolini ........................................................................= ..... Professor J. C. VOLTOLINI Grupo de Estudos em Ecologia de Mamiferos (ECOMAM) Universidade de Taubate, Departamento de Biologia Pra=E7a Marcelino Monteiro 63, Bom Conselho. Taubate, SP, BRASIL. 12030-010. TEL: 0xx12-2254165 FAX: 0xx12-2322947 E-Mail: jcvoltol@infocad.com.br ........................................................................= .... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 00:36:39 EDT From: WirtAtmar@AOL.COM Subject: Re: anti-research arson--NASA and the ultimate GMO arrogance? Wayne Tyson writes: > Look at this page and weep. Earlier in the space "program," there was > concern about extra-terrestrial contamination. Now it appears that "w " > are planning intentionally to propagate terrestrial organisms, > "engineered," no less, on other celestial bodies. Has anybody asked > Australians (lately) about the "benefits" of cactus or jackrabbits or > Guamanians about the brown tree-snake? If it walks like an alien and alks > like an alien . . . "We has met the alien--and he is us." (Apologies to > the late Walt Kelly) > > http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/roadmap/goals/g10_life_space.html > > Best (of the worst?) The "terraforming" of other planets, most especially Mars, has been discusse in some detail now for the last two decades, along with the ethical issues associated with such terraforming. To prevent the accidental terraforming of any planetary surface, no matter how remote the odds, the minimization of every possibility of the cross-contamination of one world to the next has always been a very high priority in the development and construction of all planetary landers to dat . However, if and only if Mars should prove to be absolutely barren of life, there are plans in the works, as you note, to seed Mars with a succession of modified organisms that would seem to offer an excellent chance of building self-sustaining ecosystem in the shortest time possible. But this process would only proceed after a great deal of public discussion, most probably over a period of several to many years. As to a glimpse of the ethical discussion concerning planetary cross-contamination, please see in the same general area as the page you cit : http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/roadmap/objectives/o17_planetary_protection h tml In just the last two weeks, NASA has convened a new panel to develop the plans and specifications for a new Earth-based isolation facility for the sample return missions that are now about 10 years out, at the earliest. Thi is the first step in not only protecting the Earth from any form of cross-contamination but also in the determination if life is now extant on the surface of Mars, or if it ever existed at all there. Nonetheless, it's important to understand that there is a growing body of people within the astrobiology community who believe that the possibility is quite high that Earth and Mars have been sharing ejecta from each other's planetary surface for essentially all of the time of their existences. Further, the currently available evidence also strongly suggests that at least some forms of earthly bacteria, regardless of where it arose, could survive the multi-million year trip between the planets and thus, if we do find life on Mars, it may not be all that new to us. Wirt Atmar ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:06:13 -0400 From: Paul & Torrey <belmont124@EARTHLINK.NET> Subject: Re: Anti- Research Arson "For instance, ALF and PETA have both been behind acts of terrorism to anima research facilities. I for one, value the fact that my children can receive the best health care in the world. With this comes the need for research. I do ot believe all research should be abolished but, with the extremists, laws hav been passed to help ensure more humane treatment of the animals and also fo corporations to find alternate means when it is possible. This is definitel good for all of us." --Jodi Witte, 2 June 2001 I don't think this particular example is about terrorism to research facilit es. If you destroy a researcher's building/files/etc, the researcher has to do the work again. If you set loose the animals, the researcher has to get more animals. (That's not even mentioning what happens to the now-free critters Who takes care of them? Are they just set loose, to die in traffic or from starvation, or are they adopted out? Are these new homes able to care for he exotics, like primates, or is it a case of exchanging a cage with needles f r one without? Sometimes it's hard to tell which side is more cruel to anima s.) If you act against the staff, the research moves somewhere else. What *has* worked is espionage. Either people sneak in and film the horrid conditions, poor treatment, inhumane euthanasia, and whatever else, or a me ber of the staff blows the whistle or releases the footage. But is this terror sm? Nobody was hurt, nothing destroyed. Laws were likely broken, but no industrial secrets were stolen. The public at large gets educated, which l ads to better treatment of the animals. Less-stressed animals can only improve the research. Better treatment of animals is good for all of us. Does anybody know of an example where terrorism has changed the public's min ? Not just protected that single tree or whale, but actually led to improved public understanding of an issue and then (hopefully) to better laws. I ca 't think of any. Respectfully, Torrey Torrey Moss Kalamazoo Nature Center Kalamazoo, MI ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 13:33:19 -0700 From: Vicky Hollenbeck <hollenbv@UCS.ORST.EDU> Subject: Re: anti-research arson On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Jamie McCallum (Syracuse University) wrote: > > You're right, this idea does sound naive -- because it is. if there we e a way > to change things legally and within the system that would positively e fect the > kinds of things these folks want to accomplish, they would do that. I would like to know just what legal methods these folks have tried. Have they TRULY sought other means of accomplishing their goals? Have they organized grassroots groups and sought ways to change legislation with petitions and the long hard work and TIME it often takes to affect change? Have they tried the myriad other legal routes to affect change? How long did it take Rachel Carson to painstakingly collect the data for Silent Spring, write the book, and defend its accuracy? Hmmm, to think that a single person with a Master's degree and the passion of her cause could create such havoc against the abuse of pesticides, expose industry and government, and raise public awareness to the point where DDT and other pesticides have been banned AND be a role model for conservationists and women in science, all without detonating a single bomb. Even while she was battling cancer! > (few) people want to risk the kinds of jail time these activists sometimes get. it's > certainly more courageous than appearing at the polls every few years o vote > in another capitalist. > > myriad ways. as someone said before, it often acts as cover for those doing > more mainstream legal work. it puts pressure on governmental bodies t change > laws, the same way that voters pressure representatives with threats o > non-relection. If so-called "direct action" puts the same pressure on governmental bodies to change laws as voter pressure, then what's the point of the direct action? > if anyone is willing to admit we live in a working democracy > (i'm not), they must also admit that the seats of power are kept fille by > those who bow to the demands and threats of pressure groups -- basical y, > serving the people, or the special interests that prop them up. witho t this > threat, government would operate against the will of the people. It takes a complete lack of imagination to think that in a country that allows us the freedoms to actually change the way things are that you (they?) have exhausted all legal ways of doing so. That is not to say our system is perfect (duuhhh), as if there ever could be a perfect system. By the way, this same imperfect democracy is what allows ELF and the others to print their ideas, including how to build an arson bomb, on their websites. Hmmm... If their motives are so admirable and reasonable, why don't they spend their time and energies showing others why? Write a book about how bad genetic engineering is, backed up by evidence of course, instead of one on how to build an arson bomb. (I find it interesting that ELF's website only contains books on how to be an "activist" and nothing backing up their stance against GE, save the typical anti-corporation, anti-science, Frankenstein rhetoric. I also find it interesting that they are a .com and not a .org??). Go door to door and convince people that your cause is worth joining. Become a candidate for the Green Party; Start a petition; write your legislators; raise money for your cause; learn about the nature of scientific inquiry...etc., etc., etc. Of course this will take alot more effort and ingenuity than burning property. > and sure, just as one can never be SURE no one will be injured in a bur ing > building (just as you can't be SURE you won't crash your car into a ki on a > bike), research and careful planning have shown these kinds of acts to be > extremely safe as far as injuring humans is concerned. Research????!!!!!! > No one as ever been seriously injured in a ELF/ALF action in over 25 > years. YET!!! This is equivalent to saying that it's okay to drink and drive because, hey, driving in general is risky business...and if I haven't killed someone yet in my past drunk-driving excursions, I probably won't! After all, research and careful planning have prevented it. > so many people on this list have been arguing for alternatives to prope ty > dstruction, like boycotts or more legal means of changing things. th se > things can happen regardless of whether someone is burning, and if the are not > happening, it's certainly not the fault of those burning labs. On the contrary. They are taking energy away from what could be an effective cause; they are polarizing the sides; they are giving conservationists a bad name. In a message to a researcher someone recently wrote: "F-- the greenies!" and something to the effect of arming oneself with a gun and carrying on GE research. Does that sound like the terrorists have accomplished their goals??? So much for peaceful resolutions... VH ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:38:57 -0700 From: Eric Holt <rickeyholt@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Job Sought with Herons, Egrets or Sea Birds Bird worker with experience and Master's Degree in Ecology seeks work in the U.S.A. with Herons, Egrets or sea birds for summer or longer. Resume and references available on request. Eric Holt e-mail: rickeyholt@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 13:18:29 -0700 From: Eric Holt <rickeyholt@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Teaching Ecology in High School Dear Listers, I am considering teaching a course in ecology at the high school level. Have you any resources to recommend? I expect to concentrate to some extent on birds and plants, and to include as much hands-on self-guided inquiry-based work as possible. Please respond directly to me at rickeyholt@hotmail.com . If there is interest I can post responses to the list. Thank you for your suggestions. Eric Holt (e-mail rickeyholt@hotmail.com ). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of ECOLOG-L Digest - 2 Jun 2001 to 3 Jun 2001 ************************************************* ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
Thanks to discussion with TVR, I have decided to put a link to back files of the discussion group. This months back files.
The link to complete archives is available elsewhere.
This text was originally an e-mail. It was converted using a program
RUPANTAR- a simple e-mail-to-html converter.
(c)Kolatkar Milind. kmilind@ces.iisc.ernet.in