From mjrb-training-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Feb 19 16:29:43 1997 Received: from iisc.ernet.in by ces.iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id QAA15002; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:29:43 +0500 Received: from mail-relay-BLR.ernet.in by iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-8.6.5) id QAA07427; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:34:13 +0530 Received: from relay4.UU.NET (relay4.UU.NET [192.48.96.14]) by mail-relay-BLR.ernet.in (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA29542; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:15:33 +0530 Received: from europe.std.com by relay4.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) id QQcdnl26361; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 01:29:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA24816; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:14:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:14:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702190314.WAA24816@europe.std.com> X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to mjrb-training-approval using -f To: mjrb-training@facteur.std.com Subject: MJRB-XTRA: MC_O6 >> Mini-Lesson On Majordomo List Servers << From: rbehrens@kersur.net Sender: mjrb-training-approval@world.std.com Precedence: list Reply-To: mjrb-training@facteur.std.com Status: R MJRB-XTRA: MC_O6 >> Mini-Lesson On Majordomo List Servers << ******************************************************************* OVERVIEW ******************************************************************* -- What is a List? -- How do they work? ---- Posting To a List ---- Subscribing to a List ---- Summary -- What are the different kind of lists? -- Majordomo -- The Gory Details -- List Manager Commands ---- Why use a list? ---- Why moderate a list? -- Problems Associated With List Management ---- Closed List ---- Moderated List ---- Bounced Mail From the List -- Final Comment ******************************************************************* HELP! ******************************************************************* What is a list? When I surf the net I find NewsGroups, I read about lists that one subscribes to, I find names such as BITNET, LISTSERV, MAJORDOMO, LISTPROC and the like. This stuff seems so confusing. HELP! ******************************************************************* OKAY, SO, WHAT IS A LIST ******************************************************************* Without worrying about technical terms, a list is a way to get information and to get it easily. Simply speaking, one subscribes to the list. Then, one receives postings from it. And, if so inclined, one is also able to post to the list. Now, that is easy. In fact, many of you are already subscribed to at least one list, possibly two lists: MJRB-TRAINING and MJRB-QA. You subscribed to MJRB-TRAINING and you are receiving lessons. If you subscribed to MJRB-QA you are receiving postings from others to the list and some of you are posting to the list. Oh, I knew that! (I know you did.) ******************************************************************* HOW DO LISTS WORK? ******************************************************************* Basically, a list is a piece of software that someone wrote to take care of the basics described above. In the same way, your email program you use to send and receive email on the internet is a piece of software that someone wrote to make things easier to send and receive mail electronically. In fact, a non-technical definition of software is a program written to make things easier. So, what does a list do? ------------------------------------------------------------------- POSTING TO A LIST ------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, instead of sending the same letter to many people one at a time, the LIST program takes one letter, duplicates it and sends it to everyone who is subscribed to the list. And, the list does this automatically. Thus, for the List Manager, like me, it makes things much simpler to use a list to distribute a single lesson (posting) to hundreds of people. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscribing to a List ------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, to allow people to get on a list, or subscribe to a list, the program automates (simplifies) the process. You just send a letter requesting that you be put on the list and the software takes your letter, finds your request to subscribe to a particular list, and then finds your email address. The software then places your email address on the list to which you have subscribed. Thus, it saves the list manager a great deal of time looking though hundreds of letters and finding which list and what email address to match up together. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Summary ------------------------------------------------------------------- So, very briefly, a list is a software program to simplify the process of subscribing to a list and allowing a single posting to be distributed to many people. Lists are created to meet many different purposes. When you surf the net you find that there are thousands of different lists for thousands of reasons. For any area of interest there will be a least one list if not many lists that provide information on that topic. Thus, the definition that the Internet is the Informational Super Highway. ******************************************************************* WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF LISTS ******************************************************************* In a basic way all lists work pretty much the same way. Each type of list has some features that other types of lists don't have. And, each type of list may have some particular commands necessary for that list. If you read both the ROADMAP and ACCESS documents, you will have learned that there basically are five (5) types of lists: REVISED LISTSERV (also called BITNET LISTSERV) Unix ListProcessor (or Listproc) Mailbase Mailserv Majordomo The MJRB-TRAINING lesson on LISTSERV describes some of the commands to use when using LISTSERV. The rest of this mini-lesson focuses upon the MAJORDOMO lists, which I use. If you compare the information in the lesson with the information here, you will see the slightly different commands used to get the same type of information from the list. ******************************************************************* MAJORDOMO ******************************************************************* Much of what is presented here about MAJORDOMO is actually a reproduction of the information I received when I set up my list on my World.Std.Com. I am not going to reproduce the whole document because it is a very long file and lots of it is quite technical. However, the basic information about lists is well presented. First, the majordomo list has basic information for contacting it by email. The example I use is for the MJRB-QA-DIGEST LIST. I use this example to also inform all of the MJRB-QA-DIGEST LIST. NOTE: The information I received from my provider about lists is preceded by the right carat '>'. My comments are just entered for some clarification of the points duplicated here. >Majordomo address: majordomo@world.std.com >Majordomo-Owner address: majordomo-owner@world.std.com Majordomo-owner is the World.std.com not me; I am the list manager. >List Name: mjrb-qa-digest >List posting address: mjrb-qa-digest@world.std.com >List request address: mjrb-qa-digest-request@world.std.com >List password:> >Is this list an automated digest: yes > >Your mailing list has been established. It is being served by an >automated mailing list manager that responds to commands emailed >to the "Majordomo address" listed above. This message has all the >details of how to manage your list remotely using Majordomo. If >you have any >questions, refer them to the Majordomo-Owner address >listed above. > >As soon as possible, please issue a "newinfo" command for your >list (see below) to create the file that someone will receive when >they join or ask about your list. When you subscribed, you received a Welcome letter. The recent posting on the lists is the new information letter that goes out now to folks who subscribe to one of the lists. > >You can issue a "who" command for your list to see who's already >on your list. You may or may not already be subscribed to your >own list. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- >The Gory Details ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Your mailing list is managed by an automated mailing list >management program called Majordomo. world.std.com is running >version 1.93. Majordomo should free you from dealing with most of >the administrivia >usually associated with running mailing lists >(adding users, dropping users, etc.). > >To submit something to your list, you (or anybody else) should >simply mail it to the list posting address shown at the top of >this file. > >If somebody sends something to list request address shown above >(which is the traditional Internet way of being added to a mailing >list), they will get one of two responses: If the mail contained a >majordomo >commands like 'subscribe' or 'unsubscribe', that >command will be processed as if they had sent it to majordomo. If >the mail did not contain a majordomo command, the sender will >receive a list of help >commands telling them how to use Majordomo >for routine requests, and how to contact you if they need to speak >to a human being. > >To be added to your list, a user simply sends a message of the >form > > subscribe your-list-name (user@domain.name) My 'your-list-name' is MJRB-QA-DIGEST > >by email to the Majordomo address shown above. > >Alternately, they can send the simple message > > subscribe > >by email to your mjrb-qa-digest-request address shown above. > >Majordomo understands several commands, and is not limited to a >single command per message (it will process commands until >reaching >end-of-message or the command "end"). The command >"help" will tell you about all the other commands. > >Actually, it won't tell you about _all_ the other commands that >Majordomo understands. There are several commands there for use >by list owners such as yourself, which are not advertised to the >public. All of these commands are password-protected on a list-by->list basis, but anyone with a valid list/password combination can >invoke these commands. This is not exactly high-tech security, > >but it's more intended to keep annoyance to a minimum than to be >foolproof. > >The "documented" commands which Majordomo understands and which >are for everyone to use are: > These following commands you can use from the above instructions. > subscribe [] > unsubscribe
[] > which [] > who
> info
> lists > help > end > >You can get detailed explanations of all of these by asking for >"help" from Majordomo. > ******************************************************************* LIST MANAGER COMMANDS ******************************************************************* The remainder of this help file reviews the commands which the list owner uses to manage various aspects of the list. Things the list manager is able to do includes: -- subscribing/unsubscribing people -- changing the information letter that goes out. -- configuring the list. -- whether the list is open or closed to subscriptions meaning whether anyone can subscribe or the list manager must subscribe them to the list. -- whether the list is public or private meaning whether others can get information on the list whether the list is moderated (meaning postings are first screened by the manager) or not moderated There are other things a manager can do to fine tune a list, but the above are the usual things. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Why use a list? ------------------------------------------------------------------- As you can see, a list makes it easy to post something to many, many people. And managing the list can be very automated. I tend to moderate the list so I read all postings and bounced mail to attempt to keep the list running smoothly. However, many lists once set up just run on their own and require little time from the list manager ------------------------------------------------------------------- Why do I moderated the list, you ask? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, when I first started the MJRB-QA list, I reconfigured the training list to have posts sent to the MJRB-QA list. I flooded the MJRB-QA list with bounced mail because the MJRB-QA list was unmoderated. It took me over a week and probably close to 1000 bounced posts or more being sent out before I got a handle on it. Boy, did I irritate the readers! Anyway, I basically moderated the list to have a check and balance against making another foolish error like this. Also, on occasions, I receive a post that I don't want to have sent out to the list. Such posts are advertisements that have been unsolicited and unnecessary flames as well as chain letters. For the most part, all posts are resubmitted to the list without any changes. Once in awhile, I will also attach a response to the posting received. So, the basics about lists and managing a list are: -- Automating subscribing/unsubscribing to the list -- Automating posting to the list -- And, configuring of the list. -- Open/closed subscriptions -- Moderated or Not-moderated -- Changing the Welcome (Info) Letter ******************************************************************* PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH LIST MANAGEMENT ******************************************************************* Generally speaking, list management is a very easy thing to do. One finds an account which allows lists, apply to the provider to run a list or two by providing the account provider with some basic information, and then configures the list to one's preference. It is possible to set up a list where the list manager has very little to do and lets the majordomo program just manage the list. However, one can also configure a list that then requires a fair amount of work by the manager. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Closed List ------------------------------------------------------------------- If one has closed subscriptions, then all subscriptions require a format in an email letter sent to the list. This means the manager must subscribe everyone to the list. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Moderated List ------------------------------------------------------------------- If one moderates the list, then all postings must be screened and using a specific format, send an email letter with the posting to the list so it gets posted to the list. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bounced Mail From the List ------------------------------------------------------------------- By have a closed and moderated list, the manager receives BOUNCED mail from majordomo requesting approval of the posting. Thus, a manager will often get a lot of bounced mail from majordomo. The types of bounced mail one receives includes: 1) Approving subscription to the list. This type of bounce mail occurs actually for many reasons. The first is when the list is a closed list. However, even if the list is an open list, such as MJRB-QA and MJRB-QA-DIGEST, I get a lot of bounced mail from Majordomo asking for approval to subscribe. The reasons for such bounce mail included: A). Mis-typed email addresses of the sender B). Incorrect use of the subscribing format C). Using an email address different from the FROM field. The correct form for subscribing to a MAJORDOMO list is: TO: majordomo@
My domain address is World.Std.Com and is used with the majordomo or list-name as the user@ part of the email address. Now, here is a crucial part of a problem. Majordomo scans the FROM address from the FROM field of the email sent to majordomo. If one uses a different email address, even if there is just one letter difference, the request to subscribe will bounce to the list manager (me). Therefore, it is very important to make sure the address you use is taken from your FROM field and is accurately written in the body of the letter. Here are some examples to scan using my email address. See if you can figure out the problem. My correct email address is: rbehrens@kersur.net Each of the following subscriptions to the MJRB-QA list will bounce. -- subscribe mjrb-qa rbehrens@kersur.net. -- subscribe mjrb-qa rbehrens @kersur.net -- subscribe mjrb-qa rbehrens@behrens.kersur.net -- subscribe mjrb-qa Robert Behrens -- subscribe mjrb-qa rbehrens@world.std.com -- subscribe mjrb-qa rbeherns@kersur.net -- subscribe mjrb-qa rbehrens@kersur.com The errors for each of the above are: 1. No dot or period after net. 2. No space after rbehrens. 3. Using a correct email address but the domain IP is not listed in the FROM field when I send email out. 4. Using my name rather than email address. In a LISTSERV address however one does use their First Last Name to subscribe. 5. Using my email address for a different account. 6. Mis-spelling rbehrens. 7. Using 'com' rather than 'net' as part of the domain address. 2. Other problems for bounced mail Someone discontinues their account but does not unsubscribe from the list. In the process of distributing the postings (mail), a link along the way crashes, is closed for a period of time, is not set up correctly to handle the routing needed for the mail, data sent for the email address gets corrupted, and a few other reasons I have yet to determine. Just to give you an idea of the volume of mail I handle nightly, in the last course I had over 1800 people subscribed to MJRB-TRAINING and around 600 people subscribed to MJRB-QA and around 400 people subscribed to MJRB-QA-DIGEST. During the course, I averaged over 300 email nightly. Around 10 requests where for missed lessons. Around 10 requests where to subscribe to the Training list which was closed then. Around 25 requests where for postings to MJRB-QA. Around 5 requests where personal email letters. Around 50 Letters where from other lists to which I subscribe. All the rest of the email where bounced letters due to transmittal problems related to sending out the lessons. Fortunately, I am able to filter my email such that I am able to discern which type of bounced mail belongs to which category -- subscriptions, postings, error messages. Also I filter my email so that I know which letters belong to which list (folder). However, there is a great deal of time needed to manage a list. ******************************************************************* Final Comment ******************************************************************* Hopefully, this description of running a list has been helpful and has provided some insight to running a list. =================================================================== Robert R. Behrens MJ & RB Computing, Inc. 5 Lakeshore Drive Bellingham, Ma. 02019 (508) 883-2652 rbehrens@kersur.net rbehrens@world.std.com =================================================================== Copyright Robert Behrens 1995. All Rights Reserved. Robert R. Behrens MJ & RB Computing 5 Lakeshore Drive Bellingham, Ma. 02019 (508) 883-2652 rbehrens@kersur.net rbehrens@world.std.com http://www.kersur.net/~rbehrens ============================================================================= Reference.COM has begun archiving MJRB-TRAINING as of: Jan. 30, 1997 Searchable archives for the list is available at: http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=MJRB-TRAINING@world.std.com ============================================================================= To unsubscribe from this list, send E-mail to majordomo@world.std.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE MJRB-TRAINING Contact owner-mjrb-list@world.std.com or rbehrens@kersur.net if you have problems. ============================================================================= WEB PAGE: http://www.kersur.net/~rbehrens =============================================================================